Winnipeg | Osborne Village & Fort Rouge

[thebasketballgeek]

The Village has and will never be truly special until three things happen.

1: that damn shell gas station gets removed
2: that Confusion corner becomes something other than a suburban style sea of parking.
3: get traffic off Osborne Village. Holy shit it’s incredible how frightened the city is in making it more pleasant for pedestrians. The strip is up there with the highest pedestrian traffic in the city (which is fucking sad now that I think about it) but NO we can’t have bike lanes or rapid transit on Osborne to reduce the car dependency in the area. I swear to god if someone here tells me we can’t do that on Osborne because “but TheBasketballGeek WiNniPEg dOeSn’t haVE A frEEwAy wHEre aRe All tHe cARs GoInG To gO”? I’m going to tell you that the automobiles destroying the environment with their absurd GG emissions and eroding our quality of life can go to hell.

[biguc]

For real. Only in Winnipeg is "other cities are more pedestrian friendly because they have more roads" an argument anyone would take seriously.

Seriously, though, the easiest answer is to build a 400m, 4-lane tunnel between Donald and Pembina, under Corydon. Turn Corydon and Osborne back into a normal, urban intersection. Widen the sidewalks on Osborne, add bike lanes, make it an actually nice street.

Basically, make it unreasonable to travel by car between Pembina and downtown via Osborne because the midtown bridge is easier and Osborne has better things to do than be a traffic sewer.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by biguc

Seriously, though, the easiest answer is to build a 400m, 4-lane tunnel between Donald and Pembina, under Corydon. Turn Corydon and Osborne back into a normal, urban intersection. Widen the sidewalks on Osborne, add bike lanes, make it an actually nice street.

Basically, make it unreasonable to travel by car between Pembina and downtown via Osborne because the midtown bridge is easier and Osborne has better things to do than be a traffic sewer.

And how would we pay for this $500 million luxury? That area generates $10 million/year in property tax. Even if this massively increased the vibrancy and beauty of the area, doubling the assessment base over night, it would take a minimum of 50 years for that project to pay for itself.

This is why we can't have nice things. Infrastructure costs are too high and taxes are too low relatively speaking.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

And how would we pay for this $500 million luxury? That area generates $10 million/year in property tax. Even if this massively increased the vibrancy and beauty of the area, doubling the assessment base over night, it would take a minimum of 50 years for that project to pay for itself.

This is why we can't have nice things. Infrastructure costs are too high and taxes are too low relatively speaking.

This criteria isn't ever deemed necessary for other infrastructure projects. Is the Waverly underpass going to generate $100 million in new tax revenue at the corner of Taylor & Waverly? Because from what I can see it's the exact same strip mall and Shindico office that were there before. Everyone likes to call for overpasses and interchanges on the perimeter or to create an inner ring road - I've never seen anyone bother to demonstrate how those things would generate enough tax revenue to pay for themselves. The CPT extension is also a money pit if you look at it that way but we will probably forge ahead with those while the inner city continues to crumble.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

This criteria isn't ever deemed necessary for other infrastructure projects. Is the Waverly underpass going to generate $100 million in new tax revenue at the corner of Taylor & Waverly? Because from what I can see it's the exact same strip mall and Shindico office that were there before. Everyone likes to call for overpasses and interchanges on the perimeter or to create an inner ring road - I've never seen anyone bother to demonstrate how those things would generate enough tax revenue to pay for themselves. The CPT extension is also a money pit if you look at it that way but we will probably forge ahead with those while the inner city continues to crumble.

I'm even pitching a free-flowing stretch of road! This shouldn't be some polarizing, war-on-cars idea. I'd expect this to be a slam-dunk, win-win solution for SW Winnipeg drivers and residents of Corydon and Osborne.

[xubiqtss]

Here's another easy win that would involve no heavy infrastructure changes:

May to September Osborne Street is closed to traffic from River to Pembina. Patios, vendors, pedestrians, etc.

Ever been to Montreal in the summer? They close some of the busiest streets in the city for expressly this reason and it fucking rules.
For some god forsaken reason Winnipeg can no longer even do this for one day.

The Biz needs to get it together and do this yesterday.

https://www.mtl.org/en/experience/st...n-only-streets

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

This criteria isn't ever deemed necessary for other infrastructure projects. Is the Waverly underpass going to generate $100 million in new tax revenue at the corner of Taylor & Waverly? Because from what I can see it's the exact same strip mall and Shindico office that were there before. Everyone likes to call for overpasses and interchanges on the perimeter or to create an inner ring road - I've never seen anyone bother to demonstrate how those things would generate enough tax revenue to pay for themselves. The CPT extension is also a money pit if you look at it that way but we will probably forge ahead with those while the inner city continues to crumble.

I have an idea:



TOLLWAYS!

If people want to commute by crossing the Moray Bridge, Bishop Grandin Bridge, either Perimeter Bridge, or even make the whole Perimeter a tollway once it is upgraded to limited access highway, I am all for making people pay extra to commute. Paying to use highways from outlying suburb to outlying suburb may encourage people to spend more time in their community, or at least increase the density.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

And how would we pay for this $500 million luxury? That area generates $10 million/year in property tax. Even if this massively increased the vibrancy and beauty of the area, doubling the assessment base over night, it would take a minimum of 50 years for that project to pay for itself.

This is why we can't have nice things. Infrastructure costs are too high and taxes are too low relatively speaking.

Classic Winnipegger.

Other cities take out loans to build luxuries basic infrastructure, counting on tax receipts from new development or economic activity to manage the debt. You know this.

Infrastructure doesn't have to pay for itself in the same way your home or car don't have to pay for themselves. Having a way to get to work and not being an unemployable homeless person will increase your income, allowing you to make payments on your car or home. In the meantime, you get the benefit of having the car or home. Yes, in many years you will pay off your car or home, as we will eventually pay off the infrastructure loan, but the point is, you don't need to for taking out that loan to have been worth it. And infrastructure is actually kind of better because it's not like the repo man can tow it away or change the locks on it if we don't make payments.

Anyway, to definitely be pedantic, I don't know that this tunnel would cost $500m. Winnipeg managed to build phase one of the SW transitway for $128m and that included digging a 180 m tunnel under the rail line. Pitch it right, as a way to improve cycling and transit infrastructure, which it would do, and the federal government would pay for half. The provincial government isn't conservative anymore, so they'd be good for a piece too.

Likewise, I'd be surprised if the development spurred by fixing confusion corner would only double the taxes generated by a dollar store, a Burger King, that curve of McMillan between Osborne and Pembina, a Masonic Temple, and a big-ass parking lot. There's room for about a thousand housing units in that space, building to five floors.

It's funny, I joined this board about 20 years ago, when Winnipeg was in its real doldrums. I'd dream of the city growing like it is now, thinking of all the cool things we could do. And then the city did start growing. It's almost 50 % larger than it was back then! And it's growing at something like 4% a year! If there was ever a diem to carpe, this is it. The austerity, the slow-growth mentality--that can go to bed.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

And how would we pay for this $500 million luxury? That area generates $10 million/year in property tax. Even if this massively increased the vibrancy and beauty of the area, doubling the assessment base over night, it would take a minimum of 50 years for that project to pay for itself.

This is why we can't have nice things. Infrastructure costs are too high and taxes are too low relatively speaking.

^This.

However, even if Winnipeg had money to burn, they would manage to mess up any project. After the city decided it would be a "great idea" to build Phase II of the BRT away from the high density areas of Pembina, into the suburban Parker Lands, I gave up in terms of the city ever doing anything useful in terms of pedestrians or transit riders.

[thebasketballgeek]

Not just Montréal. Here’s what Rue St Jean in Quebéc City looked like this weekend with a pedestrian only street. It will be pedestrian only until Mid October…



Québec City also plans to make 5 streets pedestrian only for certain times of the year during the summer. Can you believe that Winnipeg is actually a larger city with more people after looking at a picture like this?

[bomberjet]

Spent 2 months in Montreal about a year ago. The open streets were awesome. We loved it. Montreal is light years ahead of Winnipeg in all aspects, for obvious reasons.

[bomberjet]

^ Can you imagine the outrage. It'd be a good incentive to get people to use transit.

[ColdRain&Snow]

Lots of progress being made on 424 Wardlaw Ave. Main floor hollowcore slabs are being installed now. 197 Osborne St in the background.

[ColdRain&Snow]

160 Osborne St on the left and 425 Wardlaw Ave on the right:

[bomberjet]

There was some temporary pilot project type things in Winnipeg. Basic moveable curbs nailed to the street. Can't remember exactly where, but they were in and around downtown IIRC.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There was some temporary pilot project type things in Winnipeg. Basic moveable curbs nailed to the street. Can't remember exactly where, but they were in and around downtown IIRC.

Bannatyne and McDermot. They're "temporary" curbs, but they've been there for years and only move when the snowplows hit them. Since the experiment was successful, I'd like to see those two made permanent and the temporary curbs redeployed to trial somewhere like Wellington Crescent, Stafford, or Lilac.

[Biff]

We are the city of studies.

[WinCitySparky]

It’s still somewhat early in the season and all the rain has likely slowed the start to most things road work

[cllew]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

It’s still somewhat early in the season and all the rain has likely slowed the start to most things road work

There are some open road patch excavations in Elmwood that have a few inches of sanding water as of yesterday afternoon. Going to take a few warm days for the sub-grade to naturally dry out before the contractor can pour concrete.

[trueviking]

Noticed the Za at River and Osborne is becoming a Freshslice Pizza. Not sure if that’s better or not.