Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[Tymtw12]

Originally Posted by TimeSaltlake

So I'm here in LA for vacation. There are 4 to 7 floor wood residencial buildings going up everywhere. I wondered why salt lake was just building this kind of residencial buildings but it turns out this is the norm.

This is due to cost. You can use wood framing for up to 7 stories, but even to get to 10 stories you have to use metal-studded or its ilk, which increases the costs from $120-130 per square foot to $165-175 PSF. Things simply pencil much better for developers with the lower PSF costs. It's sad that it prevents us from getting taller buildings, but developers only goal is to make a profit and the wood versus metal-studded makes a big difference in a lot of projects' profitability.

[livedowntown]

Look these hotels are being developed by a developer that has shown little interest in doing buildings that matter. Just a bunch of stucco with some glued on details. Don't get your hopes up.

http://pegdevelopment.com/

[DMTower]

^^^ Very disappointing. Why do we as a city put up with this crap.

[livedowntown]

My argument is that it is the Developer that is at fault. The difference between glass and stucco is not so substantial that if a developer wanted to get a little less profit (maybe offset by greater demand) and if they actually had some sense of civic pride they could build a beautiful glass building for almost the same price.

They just don't care that much about design. It's just a matter of how little can I get away with and still have people come to my hotel. And in our current society you can get way with doing very little.

The other problem is that developers and the funds and banks that finance them are often uneducated (in liberal arts) and tend to think only in terms of ROI. There are a few (I wish there were more) who think secondly of truly adding to the beauty and quality of the city. They are building buildings that will last 100 years and then some. Not some tear down crap that will truly be "ghetto" in 20 but will make absolutely maximum profits.

Originally Posted by DMTower

^^^ Very disappointing. Why do we as a city put up with this crap.

[DMTower]

Looks like the wooden boxes are covered walkways after all. I agree that the developer is ultimately at fault, but why does the city council sign off on this crap so easily? Don't they have some say in what the developer can get away with?

[livedowntown]

No they don't. Or maybe they have very little. Zoning requires certain materials in certain areas but I have seen even strict material requirements churn out bad buildings. If the developer is trying to find anyway to cut corners. The way to turn the tide is for the developer to feel embarrassed to put up a cheep building. They should feel ashamed to lock up good land (and all the potential that it holds) on shoddy buildings.

[Orlando]

[Future Mayor]

The city needs to implement a design review committee for all new projects. While it creates another step in the development process, it can be simplified by setting out better guidelines and if the developers know what those guidelines and expectations are before hand they will come to design review prepared. A design review committee can make sure that a new project will be cohesive with the goals of the area as well as the existing architecture of the area. Just because Gateway is stucco, doesn't mean the city should allow for new projects surrounding it to be stucco.

[jimmycdii]

If that picture of the ESA hotel is what we're actually getting, I'm really disappointed for two reasons. One, because it just seems ugly and suburban in form.

And two, I'm honestly just disappointed there are hotels going in that spot anyway. I live a block south and the Marriott and Hampton hotels just east of Pioneer park seem to have zero positive impact on the vitality of the area. I think they're too car-centric (prominent, over built lots, etc.) so few people seemingly venture out on foot. They look like something that would be in a sketchy part of West Valley City, not somewhere that should be downtown. It's sad that we're letting this part of downtown basically be thrown away.

I know others have made these points before, but as someone who spends at least an hour a day in Pioneer Park, I've observed that the housing and restaurants in the area are actually making a difference. I went running last night in the park at 10 pm, for example, which I've been led to believe would have been a bad idea in the past. The hotels aren't contributing to this revitalization and, I think in some cases, are actually hindering it.

Anyway, here are a few pics I took from the gateway of the ESA hotel site. I took these Monday evening.

[Scraperdude801]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

The city needs to implement a design review committee for all new projects. While it creates another step in the development process, it can be simplified by setting out better guidelines and if the developers know what those guidelines and expectations are before hand they will come to design review prepared. A design review committee can make sure that a new project will be cohesive with the goals of the area as well as the existing architecture of the area. Just because Gateway is stucco, doesn't mean the city should allow for new projects surrounding it to be stucco.

As a forum, we should start demanding this via Open City Hall and our representatives. Enough is enough.

[Orlando]

I agree with Future Mayor on the Design Review Committee. But, don't they already have one? When I worked at an architecture firm in the late 90's, one of the partners was on a design review committee for some apartment/condos that were proposed to be built on about 300 north and west temple.

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by Scraperdude801

As a forum, we should start demanding this via Open City Hall and our representatives. Enough is enough.

I'd get on that bandwagon.

[Comrade]

I agree we need a Design Review Board, but we need a progressive one that is open to new ideas. Boise has one and from what I can tell, it's often a pain to work around because they're always pushing for fairly conservative buildings with a set color pattern (earth tones dominate a great deal of their buildings).

So, we have to do it right. No one wants a Design Review Board that acts as a HOA and only pushes for basic and conservative designs - of course, Salt Lake does have a liberal streak in its government that tends to embrace non-traditional designs (think the library and even the proposed DA's Offices), so...

[Twothirty8]

Just heard that STS Design is closing on a 14,000 sq ft location in downtown for their new film and TV venture. I don't know the location. But artsy companies like this usually take pride in their buildings, so we can always hope something cool happens with this.

"We’re currently closing on a 14,000 sq. foot building in downtown Salt Lake known as Film Alley to house STS Studios, which used to serve as studio space for the likes of MGM, Paramount, and RKO back in the 1930s. It’s the perfect spot to house our new venture. It’s a big day for STS.” – Ryan Martindale, ECD"

here's the link to the press release

[Merewether]

The Walkable City website which calculates accessability of neighborhoods now includes a bike score. I used address of Regent and agree it is a "Walkers' Paradise" but am not sure, as one who often trudges up Main and State from 400 South, that downtown is "flat as a pancake".

http://www.walkscore.com/score/51-e-100-s-salt-lake-city-ut-84111

[RosePark]

I pose a question all forumers. I am sincere and have no agenda.

Let's say you have a seat in the city government and you are approached by a developer to build the hotels across from ESA. You see the plans and the buildings look cheap and uninspiring for what could be a prime piece of property. You reject the plans, but the developer threatens to pull out since it's no longer as profitable or the bank won't otherwise finance it.

Do you leave the crumbling warehouse there instead and hope that in 5-10 years maybe someone will want to build something better or do you allow them to proceed?

[ctobsl]

Originally Posted by Merewether

The Walkable City website which calculates accessability of neighborhoods now includes a bike score. I used address of Regent and agree it is a "Walkers' Paradise" but am not sure, as one who often trudges up Main and State from 400 South, that downtown is "flat as a pancake".

http://www.walkscore.com/score/51-e-100-s-salt-lake-city-ut-84111

The Walkable City

My score was 94

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Twothirty8

Just heard that STS Design is closing on a 14,000 sq ft location in downtown for their new film and TV venture. I don't know the location. But artsy companies like this usually take pride in their buildings, so we can always hope something cool happens with this.

"We’re currently closing on a 14,000 sq. foot building in downtown Salt Lake known as Film Alley to house STS Studios, which used to serve as studio space for the likes of MGM, Paramount, and RKO back in the 1930s. It’s the perfect spot to house our new venture. It’s a big day for STS.” – Ryan Martindale, ECD"

here's the link to the press release

Where's Film Alley?

[livedowntown]

I say proceed. Almost any growth is good in the long term for the city. But hold tight to the established zoning regulations. Those are the rules of the game. If we have dumb zoning then we need to update the rules before the developer shows up. But certainly don't let them get away with anything. The city needs background buildings that just create the fabric.

A vibrant growing city will always have room for visionary developers who look at other motives beyond strictly profits. They will create the buildings that matter.

In the short term you just end up with some lackluster areas. I will say that I still give a lot of respect to any developer who gets in the game. It is not an easy business and at least they are doing something. At the bottom of the barel are the land bankers that just sit on run down buildings and empty lots with no plan to do anything. They're the biggest problem we face.

[Merewether]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Where's Film Alley?

Have hazy memory that phrase like this was used for the stretch of 100 South between 200 and 300 East facing St Marks Cathedral. The Blue Mouse (sorta equivalent in programming of Broadway/Tower Theatre now) and I think one or two movie industry related businesses were in that row of storefronts where Nostalgia Coffee now is. There was until a few years ago an antique/decor place called Conde (more recently on Highland in Furniture Row) which looked like it was fairly big but I doubt 14,000 square feet.