Rapid Transit

[Crapht]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

Far-reaching - It shall extend from University Plaza to Eastgate. No stopping at Gage.

The HSR might end up with an SR again after all.

Has there been a change or did you mean to say University? I haven’t seen plans that bring to University Plaza.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by Crapht

Has there been a change or did you mean to say University? I haven’t seen plans that bring to University Plaza.

Yes you're right, I should've just said McMaster. The plans have always been from Mac -> Eastgate, but the 10 goes to University Plaza. Of course, we don't know the specifics yet. Not till Thursday.

[LikeHamilton]

Originally Posted by Crapht

Has there been a change or did you mean to say University? I haven’t seen plans that bring to University Plaza.

It's McMaster to Eastgate.

[SteelTown]

During a joint provincial-federal media briefing on Tuesday, Catherine McKenna, federal minister of infrastructure and communities, said $10.7 billion would go toward four priority subway projects in the GTA.

She said more information on Hamilton would be coming later this week.

"Stay tuned, I'll see you in the Hammer, I think on Thursday," she said.

"We'll see you at our next announcement," echoed Caroline Mulroney, Ontario's minister of transportation.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...eral-1.6021947

Looks like this Thursday there will be more information on Hamilton's LRT.

[TheHonestMaple]

Fingers crossed this thing actually happens this time

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Fingers crossed this thing actually happens this time

Toes too.

It will be interesting to see the math, given that "new" and misrepresented numbers were the big reason behind the Cons deciding to pull the plug.

Perhaps they'll even let it get to the bid review stage this time.

We should expect some Hamilton councillors to bleat that, once again, they were not consulted on any of this. That there are not enough details. That we cannot afford anything except a totally free LRT ride. Blah blah wah wah blah...

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Toes too.

It will be interesting to see the math, given that "new" and misrepresented numbers were the big reason behind the Cons deciding to pull the plug.

Perhaps they'll even let it get to the bid review stage this time.

We should expect some Hamilton councillors to bleat that, once again, they were not consulted on any of this. That there are not enough details. That we cannot afford anything except a totally free LRT ride. Blah blah wah wah blah...

Detailed bid submissions would go a long way to providing details Wonder if they've ever thought that....

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by jonny24

Detailed bid submissions would go a long way to providing details Wonder if they've ever thought that....

Yep. And they were afraid of it.

Watch the bids inflate based on the money available now. We won't know it for sure, but it's bound to happen.

[drpgq]

I'm glad it seems to be going back to the higher levels of government building it and the city funding operations. Once the tracks are built, operating it is cheaper than all the buses they'll replace. I always thought that was the sell for city residents, along with trying to get a commensurate piece of the capital transit pie that Toronto gets.

I'm hoping that the city also runs it, rather than some of the operational money going to some Metrolinx bureaucrats.

[StEC]

I'm giddy with excitement and feel confident shovels will be in the ground next spring!

[SteelTown]

Randy Rath @rath_randy

Hamiltons LRT is proceeding. Funding for the project from McMaster U to Stoney Creek will be split 50/50 between the Province and the Feds each contributing $1.7 billion with the City picking up operating costs. I am told shovels could be in the ground very quickly.

The LRT will be cover 14 km with 17 stops.
Goal is to have shovels in the ground by 2023.
Will create 7000 construction jobs.
No new enviro assessment. RFP will be issued ASAP.
City must agree to covering operating costs.

https://twitter.com/rath_randy

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Randy Rath @rath_randy

Hamiltons LRT is proceeding. Funding for the project from McMaster U to Stoney Creek will be split 50/50 between the Province and the Feds each contributing $1.7 billion with the City picking up operating costs. I am told shovels could be in the ground very quickly.

The LRT will be cover 14 km with 17 stops.
Goal is to have shovels in the ground by 2023.
Will create 7000 construction jobs.
No new enviro assessment. RFP will be issued ASAP.
City must agree to covering operating costs.

https://twitter.com/rath_randy

Construction not starting until 2023? hmm, bad idea. Lots of time for the city to screw this up...

[Bubba9000]

Just need to award the contract before 2022 elections. It's gonna be tight.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Yep. And they were afraid of it.

Watch the bids inflate based on the money available now. We won't know it for sure, but it's bound to happen.

They'll already be inflated just due to material costs, but hopefully that can be mitigated slightly by not have to carry extra for COVID measures? But yeah, there's probably going to be some "these guys keep flaking" costs built in to the bids.

[matt602]

If the province/feds aren't able to take control of the project entirely, there is gonna be a HUGE shitshow at council over the operating costs. On the plus side, this means the HSR would be operating the line instead of Metrolinx and I'm really excited about "Hamilton Street Railway" actually making sense again.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by matt602

On the plus side, this means the HSR would be operating the line instead of Metrolinx and I'm really excited about "Hamilton Street Railway" actually making sense again.

Could be beneficial for revenue, as well. I already know I'll go out of my way to ride it every chance I get.

Took them 80 years, but the HSR might just operate an SR again.

[ScreamingViking]

So much angst about operating costs.

Guess what councillors... buses cost money to operate and maintain too. More of them are needed to provide the same service/capacity as rail-based transit. They have a shorter lifespan than light rail vehicles, probably needing to be replaced 2 or 3 times more often. Wear and tear increasingly costs more over time (not that LRT is immune from that, but it won't take the same pounding buses do on the roads).

Those arguing for a broader BRT system must realize that won't be free to operate either, if they're actually serious about building one.

The business case for this project needs to be updated (I believe the last time that was done was in 2015, and I think that was just the numbers for the LRT not the comparators) but someone needs to show our councillors the relevant numbers for each, side by side. I.e., here is what it costs for LRT across the next 30 years, and here is what it costs for an equivalent level of service with buses; here's what you can do with the buses formerly used in the corridor that will be replaced by the LRT; and here is the projected revenue for each of the scenarios.

Oh, and while we're at it, let's consider how the development pattern is shifted with mass transit along the city's most heavily used bus corridor, and what that means for capital and operating expenditures for other city infrastructure and services.

These folks are good at picking gnat shit out of pepper. How about taking a wholistic view?

[LikeHamilton]

Hamilton LRT is 'going to happen,' says federal infrastructure minister

Catherine McKenna says $3.4B deal for the light-rail transit system is on the table

CBC News · Posted: May 12, 2021 1:47 PM ET

A day after the federal government announced it would help fund a rapid transit system in Hamilton, Infrastructure and Communities Minister Catherine McKenna confirmed her party struck a deal with the province for light-rail transit (LRT).

In a media briefing on Wednesday, McKenna said residents should be confident that Hamilton LRT will become a reality.

"It's going to happen 'cause we have a deal," said the Ottawa Centre MP, who was born in Hamilton.

"You have the commitment from the federal government and the province to go ahead and make significant investments in the full line, and that is a shovel-ready project."

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Tuesday the Liberal government would spend $12 billion on transit in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton area.

Specifically, he said the money would cover a line connecting McMaster University in the west and Eastgate Centennial Park in Stoney Creek. He didn't say whether the funding was for LRT or bus rapid transit (BRT) system.

The province has already pledged to put $1 billion toward the project.

McKenna said the agreement is a "$3.4-billion deal that is on the table" and the project still needs the "city to be on side."

"This is a great opportunity, and I think Minister [Caroline] Mulroney would agree that we are very serious about this project," she said about Ontario's transportation minister.

"This is about building an ambitious city. This is about good jobs right now at a time when we need good jobs and we need to restart our economy," said McKenna. "This is about climate change, this is about getting cars off the road and people into their homes faster."

Horwath says LRT revival 'great victory'
Hamilton's LRT system has been in the works since 2007, when the city used a Metrolinx grant for an environmental assessment.

The plan involves a 14-kilometre system that runs alternately down Main and King streets from McMaster to Eastgate, although the plan has had at least three other iterations since 2007.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger has been advocating for the project since 2014, but some city councillors are opposed to it.

McKenna and Mulroney will make an official announcement Thursday at 10 a.m. ET.

In a Tuesday media release, Ontario NDP Leader and Hamilton Centre MPP Andrea Horwath said the revival of the Hamilton LRT was a "great victory."

But she added that the project was "ripped off the rails" in December 2019. That's when Mulroney cancelled the project, saying it was over budget and Hamilton couldn't afford it.

"I'll be watching closely for the details, but one thing is certain: It's time to get shovels in the ground, and make people's commutes better with the Hamilton LRT," said Horwath.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ding-1.6023808

[lachlanholmes]

Very doubtful that HSR will be operating the LRT. As far as I know, the only certainty is that the City will be on the hook for the operating expenses.

The project has always been envisioned as DBFOM (design, build, finance, operate, and maintain), which means that whatever consortium wins the eventual RFP will operate and maintain the line for however many years the contract states (I believe a 30 year term is standard for LRT projects in Ontario), and will be paid for doing so - this is what makes up the operational cost.

I am not well versed in procurement enough to say whether there is anything concrete that prevents the HSR from joining one of the consortiums bidding for the project, and thus becoming responsible for operations and maintenance, but from a private consortium point of view, I can definitely see how involving a government agency (like HSR) within the consortium could serve to slow down or complicate their bid.

All of this brings me back a few years to when then-councillor Matthew Green tried to ensure that HSR would run the system — and it was subsequently made clear by some folks who are more in depth on these intricacies than I am that to do so would require blowing up the DBFOM procurement model, endangering the project, and delaying it further. Unfortunately, the time spent re-debating the procurement model and potential HSR operation of the LRT served to delay the project anyway. I know I have seen it elsewhere that without this unnecessary councillor-induced delay, an agreement could have been signed prior to the 2018 provincial election.

-

FYI: Infrastructure Canada has released their media advisory for tomorrow's official announcement.

HAMILTON, ON, May 12, 2021 /CNW/ - Members of the media are invited to attend an important virtual infrastructure event with the Honourable Catherine McKenna, Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, the Honourable Filomena Tassi, Minister of Labour and Member of Parliament for Hamilton – West – Ancaster – Dundas, and the Honourable Caroline Mulroney, Ontario Minister of Transportation.

Other representatives in attendance:
- His Worship Fred Eisenberger, Mayor of Hamilton
- Joseph Mancinelli, International Vice President, LiUNA
- Phil Verster, President and CEO of Metrolinx
- David Farrar, President of McMaster University
- Rob MacIsaac, President of Hamilton Health Sciences
- Keanin Loomis, President of the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce
- Michael Lindsay, President and CEO of Infrastructure Ontario

Date: Thursday, May 13, 2021

Time: 10:00 am EDT

Zoom event: To attend the virtual event, members of the media are asked to register by sending an email to [email protected].

Livestream: Members of the public are invited to view the live announcement on the Infrastructure Canada’s Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/InfrastructureCanadaENG/live

[King&James]

Interesting that Joseph Mancinelli will be in attendance, maybe there is another hook with Liuna chipping in to develop hubs