[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Empire]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I agree that they play a purpose where street level walking is "unappealing", especially down around Purdy's/Marriott.

But that's largely a product of the Cogswell Exchange, whose days are numbered, thankfully. In a not too distant future, Cogswell will be smashed, and we might actually end up with some properly planned streetscapes around that area, especially as more residential development moves in (a natural product of Cogswell going).

Do we want to pedway policy shaped for how our streets look today? Or how they will look tomorrow? Perhaps in 10-15 years, we will be wondering why nobody is enjoying the lovely walking experience and instead still tramping through cold pedways...

I would prefer underground links so they don't disrupt the streetscape but that is cost prohibitive in most cases. Pedways probably wouldn't be allowed if they were to block the harbour view on east-west streets.

There may be a minor argument supporting the idea that street level retail would see less traffic with multiple pedways. It is hard to imagine downtown would be better off without the link system now in place though. The pedway connecting CIBC and the Delta and the one connecting the Delta and Scotia Square would have very little impact on street level retail.

After all, we are talking about a town that can't even paint crosswalks.

CIBC to Delta: (look at the crosswalk)
https://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.649171,-63...jW2ryHabfpAxYbgpYMsJRQ&cbp=12,67.25,,0,0

Delta to Scotia Square: (look at the crosswalk)
https://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.650321,-63...6jeDbgB5UaaQyHS7FAp3w&cbp=12,155.81,,0,0

[teddifax]

Just wondering, when is it that the final design is to be approved so the actual Nova Ctr can be built, not just the underground parking?

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Empire

After all, we are talking about a town that can't even paint crosswalks.

Don't fear for the crosswalks. Check this intersection out as you land on it at this link, then press your down arrow--the image moves from April 2012 to July 2012 and voila! New crosswalk paint.

As far as pedways, not necessarily opposed, but I'm not convinced they would be preferable to simply keeping the streets free of excessive ice and snow in winter. (Maybe with that wacky heated sidewalk plan). I've never seen a pedway system that didn't seem to be removing at least some action from the streets. The PATH in Toronto is something of an exception, but it really only exists in the financial district, where there's a ridiculous crush of people anyway, mainly concerned with getting from A to B than with spending time on the street in any meaningful way. Not the same kind of environment as downtown Halifax. Both the PATH and the streets are deserted by 7 p.m.

[Empire]

[QUOTE=Drybrain;6399389]Don't fear for the crosswalks. Check this intersection out as you land on it at this link, then press your down arrow--the image moves from April 2012 to July 2012 and voila! New crosswalk paint.
QUOTE]

Maybe new crosswalk paint. There is still one not painted at all. This is an old HRM trick, paint one, two or three crosswalks at an intersection and leave one or more never painted. Off topic but important to call HRM out on it. It's a disgrace.

https://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.646048,-63...8r8mgI2bAlXYQ&cbp=11,159.01,,0,4.61&z=17

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=maps&hl=en...ZTVPqsyvCRH9RJUxAo6Yw&cbp=11,140.12,,0,0

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=halifax&h...pYMUA5-e5p8zUFFxDTmuqQ&cbp=12,15.26,,0,0

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Empire

I would prefer underground links so they don't disrupt the streetscape but that is cost prohibitive in most cases. Pedways probably wouldn't be allowed if they were to block the harbour view on east-west streets.

There may be a minor argument supporting the idea that street level retail would see less traffic with multiple pedways. It is hard to imagine downtown would be better off without the link system now in place though. The pedway connecting CIBC and the Delta and the one connecting the Delta and Scotia Square would have very little impact on street level retail.

After all, we are talking about a town that can't even paint crosswalks.

CIBC to Delta: (look at the crosswalk)
https://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.649171,-63...jW2ryHabfpAxYbgpYMsJRQ&cbp=12,67.25,,0,0

Delta to Scotia Square: (look at the crosswalk)
https://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.650321,-63...6jeDbgB5UaaQyHS7FAp3w&cbp=12,155.81,,0,0

And today, Dick Butts, HRM's CAO, announced measures to constrain HRM spending this year.

Can we just please spend a tiny bit of money in this G-d forsaken city and paint some crosswalks? How about some additional historic signage, so when people walk around, they actually have a sense of this city's rich history and neighbourhoods? Notice, I'm avoiding the term "heritage" simply because due to the actions of those who claim to represent heritage in this city, the term is now inextricably bound up with the politics of anti-development and view planes, rather than preserving history and memory.

Why can't a couple thousand dollars be allocated out of the budget for these simple and basic public expenditures?

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Don't fear for the crosswalks. Check this intersection out as you land on it at this link, then press your down arrow--the image moves from April 2012 to July 2012 and voila! New crosswalk paint.

As far as pedways, not necessarily opposed, but I'm not convinced they would be preferable to simply keeping the streets free of excessive ice and snow in winter. (Maybe with that wacky heated sidewalk plan). I've never seen a pedway system that didn't seem to be removing at least some action from the streets. The PATH in Toronto is something of an exception, but it really only exists in the financial district, where there's a ridiculous crush of people anyway, mainly concerned with getting from A to B than with spending time on the street in any meaningful way. Not the same kind of environment as downtown Halifax. Both the PATH and the streets are deserted by 7 p.m.

Yeah, the PATH is a bit spooky/creepy past 7pm.

[Drybrain]

True, the city is negligent on public-realm investments like this. (I think calling it "godforsaken" is a bit much, though!)

It's also symptomatic of a standard North American disregard for the public realm, not just a Halifax problem.
A lot of the crosswalks in Toronto look like this or this. You can barely even tell they were painted once upon a time.

Used to live in Edmonton, and it's especially bad there too. But then Edmonton is extraordinarily inhospitable for pedestrians.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

True, the city is negligent on public-realm investments like this. (I think calling it "godforsaken" is a bit much, though!)

It's also symptomatic of a standard North American disregard for the public realm, not just a Halifax problem.
A lot of the crosswalks in Toronto look like this or this. You can barely even tell they were painted once upon a time.

Used to live in Edmonton, and it's especially bad there too. But then Edmonton is extraordinarily inhospitable for pedestrians.

Yes, my "G-d forsaken" was hyperbole.

And yes, Edmonton is a bit of a disaster downtown, and has been so for a long time. They're starting to figure this out, however, and trying to change it, but plenty of resistance to change. Like Halifax.

Agree Toronto lags, but then at least when you walk around downtown Toronto there are some simple signs to let you know when you've entered a new community/neighbourhood. Little Italy is marked, Danforth, historic Kensington Market, Chinatown, Mirvish Village, Rathnelly, etc.

For example:


I mean, is that too complex, costly, and revolutionary for Halifax?

Sure, not much information is provided, but today, you could at least Google the neighbourhood on the spot, and learn.

[Drybrain]

Bah. You hit on one of my minor irritations about Toronto--the city is sadly ditching the acorn signs for these numbers, largely to save money. Some will still demarcate specific neighbourhoods, but the new design is pretty meh.

Similar to the crummy new street furniture, which, to its small credit, included garbage bins with little foot pumps to open the receptacles--but the pumps are wearing out already, and trash is usually strewn everywhere since they don't close properly anymore. This Lisa Rochon piece in the Globe actually gets at some of what we're talking about here in terms of Canada's crappy public realm, using the street furniture as an example.

Oh, Canada.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Bah. You hit on one of my minor irritations about Toronto--the city is sadly ditching the acorn signs for these numbers, largely to save money. Some will still demarcate specific neighbourhoods, but the new design is pretty meh.

Similar to the crummy new street furniture, which, to its small credit, included garbage bins with little foot pumps to open the receptacles--but the pumps are wearing out already, and trash is usually strewn everywhere since they don't close properly anymore. This Lisa Rochon piece in the Globe actually gets at some of what we're talking about here in terms of Canada's crappy public realm, using the street furniture as an example.

Oh, Canada.

Well, that's dumb of Toronto.

Scanned that article; wish it has some pics of the new furniture. I can imagine it's going to be cheap plastic crap.

By the way, that's a very hopeful/optimistic piece. I like how it ended. Someone email it to HRM Council and Staff...

[Empire]

HRM please get with the program and choose one or more options from the following:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=images+fo...ATe9oDoCA&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1649&bih=1004

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Well, that's dumb of Toronto.

Scanned that article; wish it has some pics of the new furniture. I can imagine it's going to be cheap plastic crap.

By the way, that's a very hopeful/optimistic piece. I like how it ended. Someone email it to HRM Council and Staff...

The street furniture has been around a few years. Here's an article from when it was first unveiled.

[Nilan8888]

Well, that's dumb of Toronto.

Actually, I generally support this move.

The pictures of those other street signs don't quite point out how small they generally are. They're not always easy to spot when driving along the busier streets. This isn't always a big deal when you're already off the main roads, but when you're on, say, the Danforth and looking at sign after sign, figuring when you need to turn off? It's pretty easy to miss one. Very nearly happened to me last Christmas Eve.

Larger signs will help against that. It's harder to get generally lost in Toronto than Halifax thanks to the simple grid system, but missing a street and then having to turn around and come back the other way feels like SUCH a bigger hassle.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Nilan8888

Actually, I generally support this move.

The pictures of those other street signs don't quite point out how small they generally are. They're not always easy to spot when driving along the busier streets. This isn't always a big deal when you're already off the main roads, but when you're on, say, the Danforth and looking at sign after sign, figuring when you need to turn off? It's pretty easy to miss one. Very nearly happened to me last Christmas Eve.

Larger signs will help against that. It's harder to get generally lost in Toronto than Halifax thanks to the simple grid system, but missing a street and then having to turn around and come back the other way feels like SUCH a bigger hassle.

Who wants to drive around Toronto, including the Danforth? Take the Bloor line out on the TTC.

In all seriousness, I have no problem with bigger signs to accommodate motorists. But why get rid of the neighbourhood identifiers? Presumably, there's even more room to have that info on bigger signs. The writing can be smaller too, because it is for pedestrians.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Empire

HRM please get with the program and choose one or more options from the following:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=images+fo...ATe9oDoCA&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1649&bih=1004

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The street furniture has been around a few years. Here's an article from when it was first unveiled.

To be honest, the fact that things are so bad here in terms of any kind of streetscaping, benches, and the complete lack of street furniture, as boring as these things are, I must confess: Wouldn't be bad at all to have something like this to be rolled out in Halifax... anything to brighton up some dank/rough/downtrodden spots.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Yes, my "G-d forsaken" was hyperbole.

And yes, Edmonton is a bit of a disaster downtown, and has been so for a long time. They're starting to figure this out, however, and trying to change it, but plenty of resistance to change. Like Halifax.

Agree Toronto lags, but then at least when you walk around downtown Toronto there are some simple signs to let you know when you've entered a new community/neighbourhood. Little Italy is marked, Danforth, historic Kensington Market, Chinatown, Mirvish Village, Rathnelly, etc.

For example:


I mean, is that too complex, costly, and revolutionary for Halifax?

Sure, not much information is provided, but today, you could at least Google the neighbourhood on the spot, and learn.

Historic signage Dartmouth Crossing:
https://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.697007,-63...vZJrKT7Mpi9y7ovKEQ&cbp=12,75.39,,3,-7.82

[fenwick16]

Construction of the Nova Centre Centre seems to be continuing steadily in spite of the winter cold spells. They seem to be finding a way to continue with the form-work and pouring concrete. The construction workers look cold though (I am glad that I can work inside).

(source: Ziobrop - http://fillingtheholehfx.tumblr.com/)

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Empire

Historic signage Dartmouth Crossing:
https://maps.google.ca/?ll=44.697007,-63...vZJrKT7Mpi9y7ovKEQ&cbp=12,75.39,,3,-7.82

Of all places, the signage is done in Dartmouth Crossing.

[fenwick16]

Perhaps Councilor Waye Mason has some information on the progress of the amendments for the Nova Centre (or if amendments will even be required?). My possibly mistaken impression was that the amendments were required to close Grafton to vehicular traffic(?) However, it is being left open to pedestrian traffic so are amendments really required?