[Saint John] Port Development

[PSJ harbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

PSJ Harbour, great posts. Quick question.

What's the real state of the old sugar refinery site and the pier south of Lower Cove? I fish off it sometimes and it's pretty freaky. My dad says it's basically teak posts and fill to the west. How serious would remediation efforts be?

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.2640...!1e3?entry=ttu

The old sugar refinery has always been a huge No No area. The berth is small, could only fit a 140m bulker roughly. It is prime real estate and there hasn’t been a developer that I know of. I believe the area is so contaminated that it’s so costly it would be scary to even start shovelling in the ground. There must be more to it, because I would think the Potash would extend down there or something else would have developed if it was ready to go. You can still see the wooden piles for rail on the south end of it. You can look at old pictures and relate the rail to where the piles sticking out are.

[PSJ harbour]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

Since it may be awhile before we get real data on the 2023 intermodal throughput, I have some numbers that may or may not be relevant.

2022
Ships 147
Average size 2577 TEU
Throughput 151,000

2023
Ships 201 (37% larger)
Average size 2830 (10% larger)
Throughput > 151K

I’m sure these figures are accurate. However the AT3 ships were only 2500 teu’s roughly, but were having 2500-3000 moves. We gained the CES service and ONE line after AT3 stopped, both services with bigger ships, but only moving 500 ish roughly respectively. So smaller feeder ships may have much larger turnarounds then big owners.

[PSJ harbour]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Another question.....aside from the undermining old piling issues, how deep is the overburden in the harbour? How much dredging could you do before hitting rock?

There is rock everywhere in the harbour. You should get a chart of Saint John harbour, it’s pretty cool to see how close rock is to the channel. The harbour itself is deep, and the berths are all over from 9-12.2m and 17.1m at new berth. There is rock in the main channel, it is 9.1m at low water now and in areas it can’t go any deeper unless they blast. There is rock just north of the ferry terminal, west of the main channel. There is rock at Rodney Face, but I’m not sure how much. Between the main channel and Courtney bay Channel there is rock, above chart datum, you can see rock at mid tide and lower between channels. There is rock at the potash berth as well. I couldn’t pin point everywhere but there certainly are many spots with hard bottom.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by PSJ harbour

The AIM berth, aka Pier 10, is even older than Rodney face south, however it is more of a caisson style, with big caverns underneath you can see at low water. Looks similar to the styles at pier 1, 2 and 3 before they got filled in.

Thanks. I remember hearing Craig Estabrooks at the 2023 PSJ Annual General Meeting mention that they were getting financial records organized in order to prepare for a future expenditure that he alluded to as significantly larger than recent ones. Maybe it was this situation that needed to be resolved. The video was livestreamed but it isn't available anywhere online that I can find.

Here's the link to my initial statement on May 31-23:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...ostcount=13537

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by PSJ harbour

There is rock everywhere in the harbour. You should get a chart of Saint John harbour, it’s pretty cool to see how close rock is to the channel. The harbour itself is deep, and the berths are all over from 9-12.2m and 17.1m at new berth. There is rock in the main channel, it is 9.1m at low water now and in areas it can’t go any deeper unless they blast. There is rock just north of the ferry terminal, west of the main channel. There is rock at Rodney Face, but I’m not sure how much. Between the main channel and Courtney bay Channel there is rock, above chart datum, you can see rock at mid tide and lower between channels. There is rock at the potash berth as well. I couldn’t pin point everywhere but there certainly are many spots with hard bottom.

Thanks, certainly knew about much of the stuff outside the channel (NE of Partridge Is. off ferry terminal and between the main harbour and the channel to Courtney Bay from sailing in and out of the harbour. Wasn't sure about how much deeper the main channel or along the wharf faces could be dredged or if that was possible at all. You don't pay a lot of attention to whether certain areas are 30 feet at low tide or 40+ when you only draw 6

[FromMaine]

One of CPKC's goals with Saint John is to land an Asian (likely India) direct service via the Suez. Right now that's a bit constrained based on the Red Sea crisis, but long term that is a goal. For reference, MSC has started in the past few years similar services to Halifax in tandem with CN.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by FromMaine

One of CPKC's goals with Saint John is to land an Asian (likely India) direct service via the Suez. Right now that's a bit constrained based on the Red Sea crisis, but long term that is a goal. For reference, MSC has started in the past few years similar services to Halifax in tandem with CN.

Analysts believe India will become the new “China” (manufacturing) over the next couple decades as infrastructure is improved/built. It makes sense this would benefit east coast ports.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

It makes sense this would benefit east coast ports.

As long as the Suez Canal isn't blocked.

[Ottawa]

A new/rebuilt SD70M-2 for NBSR. #6413 was caught rolling through Lynden, On., just northwest of Hamilton on Jan. 3. Another good sign that all cylinders are continuing to fire. I believe they had ordered ~18 of these. I guess that means 5 more are still on the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK8rwqWZSTA


Video by Ng Fan on YouTube

[FromMaine]

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...Term-Agreement

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by FromMaine

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...Term-Agreement

Who manages Canpotex’s operations now?

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by FromMaine

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...Term-Agreement

Very interesting, and good news.

DP World is the best thing that has happened in Saint John in a long time. They appear to be motivated, they have deep pockets, and they have much experience in greasing the skids that move things around the world. Signing them up for a 5 year contract indicates to me that Canpotex agrees.

Up until now, I think the Canpotex terminal has been a remote control operation that has been run from Saskatchewan. If there is a company anywhere that can add some value to the terminal, it is probably DP World. They have contacts from all over the world and especially where a lot of this potash is headed. If they can add value to it, it solidifies Canpotex to Saint John.

https://www.dpworldcanada.com/news_p...erm-agreement/

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Who manages Canpotex’s operations now?

I know QSL https://qsl.com/ has had something to do with it, but I can't say for sure where their responsibilities began and ended.

[sailor734]

Does anyone know what kind of job numbers the port generates? Either working directly at the port or for companies closely connected to port operations (rail, trucking, dredging, tugs etc etc)

It would be interesting to see these number today vs say 5 and 10 years ago.....and projections (if there are any) of what the numbers could look like 5 years from now.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Does anyone know what kind of job numbers the port generates? Either working directly at the port or for companies closely connected to port operations (rail, trucking, dredging, tugs etc etc)

It would be interesting to see these number today vs say 5 and 10 years ago.....and projections (if there are any) of what the numbers could look like 5 years from now.

I don’t have numbers, but my brother in law gets work from the port in his position at a local company and stated employment direct and indirect has exploded due to the expansion. I also would love to know

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Who manages Canpotex’s operations now?

"Saint John, New Brunswick
The Saint John Terminal is owned by PotashCorp and is operated and managed by Canpotex Terminals Limited. The terminal, located at Port Saint John in New Brunswick, is a dry bulk handling facility with up to approximately 2 million tonnes of annual throughput capacity and two storage sheds with approximately 210,000 tonnes of combined storage capacity. Having an east coast port option gives Canpotex better access to the eastern coasts of South and Central America, and to West Africa and Europe."


There was a question raised recently why potash was not transported through the great lakes when possible. In the interests of making sure everyone gets the correct information:

"A smaller portion of our potash is transported east to Thunder Bay, Ontario for shipment through the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence Seaway or to the terminal facility in Saint John, New Brunswick, a 4,300 kilometre trip."

Further information:

"Thunder Bay, Ontario
Canpotex has been shipping Saskatchewan potash through Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada via the St. Lawrence Seaway since 1986. Thunder Bay Terminals, located at the Port of Thunder Bay, has a separate and dedicated dry-bulk handling system, primarily used for potash. Trains of up to 120 railcars can be handled via a dedicated loop track, with the capacity to stage up to 400 railcars on site. This eastern port option gives Canpotex better access to its customers in Europe."

All quoted excerpts from:
https://www.canpotex.com/how-we-move...tion-logistics

[PSJ harbour]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

"Saint John, New Brunswick
The Saint John Terminal is owned by PotashCorp and is operated and managed by Canpotex Terminals Limited. The terminal, located at Port Saint John in New Brunswick, is a dry bulk handling facility with up to approximately 2 million tonnes of annual throughput capacity and two storage sheds with approximately 210,000 tonnes of combined storage capacity. Having an east coast port option gives Canpotex better access to the eastern coasts of South and Central America, and to West Africa and Europe."


There was a question raised recently why potash was not transported through the great lakes when possible. In the interests of making sure everyone gets the correct information:

"A smaller portion of our potash is transported east to Thunder Bay, Ontario for shipment through the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence Seaway or to the terminal facility in Saint John, New Brunswick, a 4,300 kilometre trip."

Further information:

"Thunder Bay, Ontario
Canpotex has been shipping Saskatchewan potash through Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada via the St. Lawrence Seaway since 1986. Thunder Bay Terminals, located at the Port of Thunder Bay, has a separate and dedicated dry-bulk handling system, primarily used for potash. Trains of up to 120 railcars can be handled via a dedicated loop track, with the capacity to stage up to 400 railcars on site. This eastern port option gives Canpotex better access to its customers in Europe."

All quoted excerpts from:
https://www.canpotex.com/how-we-move...tion-logistics

Some ships that load in Thunder Bay come to Saint John to top up. I believe there is a max draught of under 9m at the Thunder Bay facility. I believe Thunder Bay can load a little over 20,000 tons on a ship, and can only handle laker size ships, meaning narrow ships that can go through the locks. Depending on the tide, Saint John can load a little over 50,000 tons on a ship. I’ve Seen ships leave around 12m draught here.

[cdnguys]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

[IMG][/IMG]

5527 TEU coming direct from Houston on Jan. 18. Is this a record?

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

[IMG][/IMG]

I would if this is just a one off stop or the beginning of a new route. I see that this ships previous stops were Hamburg then a couple stops in Mexico and on to Houston. If this is a new line very interesting and it shows that Hapag-Lloyd likes Saint John