Winnipeg | Forks Redevelopment | Parcel 4 - Rail Side Initiative | Proposals

[Ando]

Originally Posted by drew

I think the Pallister government has made their position regarding rail re-location abundantly clear at this point - basically to go pound sand.

At this point the City would be wise to focus their strategies on investments that the current provincial gov't may actually support (not exactly sure what that might be) - rather than wasting more time on this particular subject.

Where there is potential federal involvement and money available then anything can happen. Money leverages action and changes the playing field. Bowman is no dummy, he knows that. If the King of Costa Rica is too shortsighted to at least see the value and importance of studying the situation right now, that doesn't mean circumstances won't change.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Ando

Uh ... say what? He's the mayor of the city where we are talking about rail relocation.

And the mayor has literally zero power in the face of a provincial decision to the contrary. He's saying what he needs to say to keep people happy. It ain't happening.

[drew]

^^^ I just don't see the province getting on board anytime soon. Look at the more recent and bigger fish they have to fry in terms of the Churchill port, the mill in The Pas, etc. Rail relocation is a nice to have, not need to have.

We have enough issues to address in the City without spending another several $100k on a report that at best will be shelved for 5+ years.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

And the mayor has literally zero power in the face of a provincial decision to the contrary. He's saying what he needs to say to keep people happy. It ain't happening.

It is not a priority for the Pallister government, but if the feds and the city make a strong case, that could change.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

It is not a priority for the Pallister government, but if the feds and the city make a strong case, that could change.

Do you see the federal government coughing up $1 - 2B for this one project? I don't.

[Urban recluse]

We will simply have to see what progress Bowman can make.

[Ando]

JMT, you're not really listening. You seem to be opposed to even studying the issue, which at this point is all we're talking about. That seems odd. Why oppose the study of an issue for a very small amount of $$? It's been pointed out over and over that we are going to spend billions on going over and under tracks, building new bridges and so on. It's only responsible to do a study and look and the costs and benefits of doing those projects as opposed to relocating rail and spending the $$ on that. Certain federal members have already voiced support for the idea. The feds can often come in and leverage projects. The Forks itself is one example. Lloyd Axworthy, the godfather, was a master at intergovernmental agreements that leveraged projects. If you are denying this has happened in the past, or could happen in the future, then I would love to hear your explanation. If a cost-benefit study shows there is no merit then it won't be pursued. But there's something a little suspicious about opposing the actual study.

[jmt18325]

I'm not opposed. I'm all for it, provided we are able to address other infrastructure needs at the same time. I'm not the one you need to convince. Neither is the mayor.

[buzzg]

At the end of the day, rail lines are the feds' jurisdiction. Technically, the province doesn't need to be involved at all. If the feds say "here's $200k" for the study, I'm sure the city could find the other half and leave the province out completely.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by buzzg

At the end of the day, rail lines are the feds' jurisdiction. Technically, the province doesn't need to be involved at all. If the feds say "here's $200k" for the study, I'm sure the city could find the other half and leave the province out completely.

Sure, but that's probably not going to happen, especially in the next two years. The current new federal infrastructure program is aimed at repairing and replacing existing infrastructure for transit, water, and green.

[lilwayne]

I was driving down bison and I think I changed my opinion 6 story buildings would look fine at the forks.. Driving Duran Bison 6 story buildings still have lots of street presence and would be very noticeable driving down Main St 10 story would be perfect though

[lilwayne]

Winnipeg is growing and changing very rapidly in my opinion... Just starting to look a lot cleaner more appealing.. Driving around the city I'm noticing a buzz I never felt before

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by lilwayne

Winnipeg is growing and changing very rapidly in my opinion... Just starting to look a lot cleaner more appealing.. Driving around the city I'm noticing a buzz I never felt before

I get the same feeling. The most striking thing I have noticed over the last couple of years is the number of millennials you see in urban areas. I think fewer young people are leaving Winnipeg these days (for a number of reasons). We are also getting some return migration from western Canada in particular, although I only have anecdotal evidence for that. In any event it is great to see. Having a growing population of employed young people changes a city..

[Urban recluse]

Yes, it is this demographic that will lead to real change in places like the West End, and downtown, in terms of transforming the parts which are in desperate need of rejuvenation (ie: Ross Ave around Princess, etc).

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Yes, it is this demographic that will lead to real change in places like the West End, and downtown, in terms of transforming the parts which are in desperate need of rejuvenation (ie: Ross Ave around Princess, etc).

It's funny you should mention Ross and Princess... last week I was walking by RRC on Elgin by Princess, and thinking about how it appears that for all the spinoff effect RRC has had on the Exchange generally, the residential neighbourhood immediately to the west has not changed one bit in spite of having this busy campus nearby.

It's actually amazing to me how when you go 200 ft west of RRC on Elgin, it's exactly the way it was 15 years ago. Still run down and shabby, for the most part.

Rejuvenation of the residential area between the Exchange and HSC would be a huge game changer... if that ever became a desirable place to live along the lines of Wolseley, it would have a massive effect on downtown and the Exchange in particular. Right now with the way things are there might as well be a Trumpian wall on Hargrave because the Exchange really doesn't interact at all with the area to the west.

[drew]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's funny you should mention Ross and Princess... last week I was walking by RRC on Elgin by Princess, and thinking about how it appears that for all the spinoff effect RRC has had on the Exchange generally, the residential neighbourhood immediately to the west has not changed one bit in spite of having this busy campus nearby.

It's actually amazing to me how when you go 200 ft west of RRC on Elgin, it's exactly the way it was 15 years ago. Still run down and shabby, for the most part.

Rejuvenation of the residential area between the Exchange and HSC would be a huge game changer... if that ever became a desirable place to live along the lines of Wolseley, it would have a massive effect on downtown and the Exchange in particular. Right now with the way things are there might as well be a Trumpian wall on Hargrave because the Exchange really doesn't interact at all with the area to the west.

William Street has "perked" up quite a bit over the past few years.

I would think the housing market around there would start to try and take advantage of the never-ending supply of medical/nursing students that might want to live in the immediate area.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

William Street has "perked" up quite a bit over the past few years.

I would think the housing market around there would start to try and take advantage of the never-ending supply of medical/nursing students that might want to live in the immediate area.

I'm less familiar with the area around HSC but there does seem to be at least some sign that a few workers live nearby, in particular to the west of HSC between the facility and Arlington.

Students, perhaps less so... I'm sure they want to be where the action is, and there isn't much of it by HSC. I think convincing a med student to live on Bannatyne near HSC would be a tough sell.

I guess I'm a little jealous of cities like Ottawa where their downtown transitions into nice, normal Wolseley-like residential areas on seemingly all sides... by contrast, you go 200 feet west of Chinatown and you're in an area where few would feel comfortable walking around at night.

I agree re: William, though... it's getting a bit better and there are apparently more improvements to come judging by some of the rumours posted here.

[Urban recluse]

I fall victim to this all the time Esq: I get jealous and actually angry at times Winnipeg has not progressed to that point. It seems no matter where you leave/come into downtown, you end up in decrepit areas.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

I fall victim to this all the time Esq: I get jealous and actually angry at times Winnipeg has not progressed to that point. It seems no matter where you leave/come into downtown, you end up in decrepit areas.

Frankly, I think this is the root issue when it comes to Winnipeg. Downtown itself is not a bad place... it's pretty nice, in fact. The issues that are cited as downtown problems are really related to poverty and crime in surrounding neighbourhoods.

We're a bit like Detroit in that regard... nice, functional downtown surrounded by a lot of decrepitude. The funny thing is that you can't really point at recent urban sprawl as the trigger for that decline... some of those areas like parts of PD and Centennial have been down at the heels for a hundred years or more.

[Urban recluse]

True. I do have issues with downtown, as we have discussed before, we have no spot with four corners of commercial vibrancy, charming storefronts, etc, or even a few blocks of solid, uninterrupted urban bliss. I have always thought Princess would become this. It is a refrain, but we need hundreds of new residents, as well as better designs for new buildings, as well as renovations to existing ones. Furthermore, the downtown needs so much infrastructure work. The appearance of crumbling curbs, roads, sidewalks, etc only make the appearance of decrepit buildings worse.

At this point in Winnipeg's revitalization efforts, I would expect to see some of this:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@39.76430...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.03263...7i13312!8i6656

I am hoping this Forks development will be spectacular, with very little open space. I want to see density density density.