Provincial Election

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Interesting that nobody was complaining three years ago when Trudeau was doing exactly the same thing.

I did! That tax cut was dumb. Although at least in that case it was partly offset by an increase in taxes on the wealthy.

For many, Ford's proposed income tax will actually be completely cancelled out by the coming CPP increase. It will deprive the province of a huge chunk of revenue and the majority of taxpayers will barely even be able to notice it. Dumb policy. Hope its cancelled.

[once]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Let's face it. A lot of people got cold feet about voting NDP at the last minute. There is nothing as seductive as a promise to cut taxes, whether it is a wise to cut taxes or not. With baby boomers becoming seniors, how will tax cuts fund our health care system in the coming years?

People have cold feet about voting NDP since Rae. Rae hysteria is directly responsible for the Ford government.

[Paul29]

Originally Posted by once

People have cold feet about voting NDP since Rae. Rae hysteria is directly responsible for the Ford government.

That's not why I won't vote NDP, it has nothing to do with Rae days. It's 100% their agenda. I despise unions. I hate their theory of asking the higher income earners "pay a little bit more". I hate that their platforms involve so much spending. I don't trust anyone in the party to be in any kind of leadership role as a cabinet minister.(and yes, I understand all parties have inexperienced people and some of those who do have experience shouldn't have a provincial portfolio regardless of size).

Did I mention I hate unions?

[once]

Originally Posted by Paul29

That's not why I won't vote NDP, it has nothing to do with Rae days. It's 100% their agenda. I despise unions. I hate their theory of asking the higher income earners "pay a little bit more". I hate that their platforms involve so much spending. I don't trust anyone in the party to be in any kind of leadership role as a cabinet minister.(and yes, I understand all parties have inexperienced people and some of those who do have experience shouldn't have a provincial portfolio regardless of size).

Did I mention I hate unions?

Sure... there is that too

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I did! That tax cut was dumb. Although at least in that case it was partly offset by an increase in taxes on the wealthy.

For many, Ford's proposed income tax will actually be completely cancelled out by the coming CPP increase. It will deprive the province of a huge chunk of revenue and the majority of taxpayers will barely even be able to notice it. Dumb policy. Hope its cancelled.

I agree, but those things are also true of the Trudeau tax cut, more so in fact because you have to make more to see any of the Trudeau cut.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by once

People have cold feet about voting NDP since Rae. Rae hysteria is directly responsible for the Ford government.

Maybe a third of the current electorate was eligible to vote in 1995.

[J.OT13]

I agree, tax cuts are pointless. We barley see a difference, yet government coffers are hit hard. In any case, I've never had a problem with the amount of taxes I pay. Ontario is pretty fair. Québec is a different story.

And yes, Trudeau also cut taxes for the middle class (peanuts for everyone making between x and y!) and raised taxes on the rich (which can drive talent to the US). But, em... Nope, no way of defending that. My views have changed over the last 3 years and I can now see why some of Harper's promises weren't so bad. I would probably vote Liberal again anyway.

Originally Posted by once

People have cold feet about voting NDP since Rae. Rae hysteria is directly responsible for the Ford government.

I don't get that. What did Rae do that was so bad compared to Harris who's #1 policy was to shut down hospitals?

[1overcosc]

From what I gather, Rae had the misfortune of governing at a really bad time.

[acottawa]

I think Rae suffered from a lot of the same problems that Wynne had, he was all over the place policy-wise and ended up alienating just about everyone in the process. He also had a very weak cabinet, and as loveroc stated some bad luck in timing.

Harris clearly made some important blunders (Walkerton being the most egregious) but was generally consistent in is approach. And the Liberals kept most of his policies (the tax cuts, the user fee increases, the amalgamations).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think Rae suffered from a lot of the same problems that Wynne had, he was all over the place policy-wise and ended up alienating just about everyone in the process. He also had a very weak cabinet, and as loveroc stated some bad luck in timing.

Harris clearly made some important blunders (Walkerton being the most egregious) but was generally consistent in is approach. And the Liberals kept most of his policies (the tax cuts, the user fee increases, the amalgamations).

It would have been very difficult to undo Harris' policies.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Maybe a third of the current electorate was eligible to vote in 1995.

I'm old enough to have voted in three provincial elections and I was still in diapers when Bob Rae was defeated.

[acottawa]

So people should remain ignorant of any events that occurred before they turned 18?

No wonder we're stuck with Trump.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

So people should remain ignorant of any events that occurred before they turned 18?

No wonder we're stuck with Trump.

You missed the point: the share of voters who are still pissed off at Bob Rae, as a percentage of all voters, is steadily declining. The folk tale of how Bob Rae supposedly ruined everything (a tale which is told as often by disappointed lefties as by right-wing nutjobs who never voted NDP anyway), loses power with every death, every 18th birthday, every relocation to Halifax or Edmonton, and every citizenship ceremony.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

You missed the point: the share of voters who are still pissed off at Bob Rae, as a percentage of all voters, is steadily declining. The folk tale of how Bob Rae supposedly ruined everything (a tale which is told as often by disappointed lefties as by right-wing nutjobs who never voted NDP anyway), loses power with every death, every 18th birthday, every relocation to Halifax or Edmonton, and every citizenship ceremony.

Or maybe some of these people will educate themselves about past mistakes (to avoid repeating them and stuff) and decide that increasing expenditures by 45% is not a sensible economic strategy and then having second thoughts and making hundreds of thousands of public sector workers take unpaid leave is not a sensible political strategy.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Or maybe some of these people will educate themselves about past mistakes (to avoid repeating them and stuff) and decide that increasing expenditures by 45% is not a sensible economic strategy and then having second thoughts and making hundreds of thousands of public sector workers take unpaid leave is not a sensible political strategy.

Those public-sector workers would have preferred to be laid off entirely in lieu of a few Rae Days, I'm sure.

I could use a Rae Day, actually.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Those public-sector workers would have preferred to be laid off entirely in lieu of a few Rae Days, I'm sure.

Which wouldn't have been necessary if they hadn't increased spending massively in the first place.

And Rae days are an extremely inefficient way to make cutbacks because all of the overhead must be maintained (office space, IT, management, etc). If you're worried about layoffs it would be much better to pay laid off employees for a period while they locate a new position in the public sector (which is what the federal government does for employees whose positions are declared surplus).

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I could use a Rae Day, actually.

Most employers let their employees take unpaid leave if they want.

[Marshsparrow]

There may be people that still have nightmares of NDP (although I'm skeptical of that one or it becomes a wash when resurrecting Mike Harris or Dalton McGuinty) - but we've just given a MAJORITY to an idiot who didn't even have a platform or anything that was actually credibly costed - now that's rich!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

There may be people that still have nightmares of NDP (although I'm skeptical of that one or it becomes a wash when resurrecting Mike Harris or Dalton McGuinty) - but we've just given a MAJORITY to an idiot who didn't even have a platform or anything that was actually credibly costed - now that's rich!

The voters are always right - stupid, oftentimes, but right.

[Norman Bates]

We elect the government that we deserve.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

We elect the government that we deserve.

That is the quote of the day!