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  #361  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2011, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BevoLJ View Post
(1) Those three events alone would put it at a $27 subsidy not $125 (I used only the three main days not the full weeks worth of stuff per event).
(2) Something new that would put Austin on a stage for the whole world to see and bring in people from all over the world. It has a huge potential to be something great for the city.
(1) Does any event other than F1 get a part of that $25 Million/year from a state's trust fund? Why just F1? The correct answer = BRIBE.

(2) Look at the F1 history of the US Grand Prix in Watkins Glen once again, were there any major economic development started by "International" visitors near it? The correct answer = NO.

I'm tired of taxpayers being asked to support "pie in the sky", "chicken in every pot" economic developments, directly or indirectly.
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  #362  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2011, 6:34 PM
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Watkins Glen investments would be found in the NYC area... not the little town of Watkins Glen. Sorting through that in a metro that big would be difficult... but your analogy would be like looking for the investments in Bastrop/watkins glen when the hub is Austin/nyc.

This breaks down pretty easy. The $25M subsidy isn't used for F1.... it gets used on some other 1 off event in Houston, Dallas, or SA... and teachers see none of that money, and we still pay the tax for it. Or the the $25M isn't used at all for the next year or few years... and teachers still don't see any of that money, and we still pay the tax. OR that already allocated $25M goes to F1 which puts money into our local economy, local taxes... and some of the money has a chance to get to teachers. Bottom of the matter is that we've already paid and are committed to paying that subsidy. And that $25M is allocated... it can't be redirected.

Perhaps this is a digression, as the logic comes down to beleif structures... "I'm being cheated with a pie in the sky" or "I'm willing to make an investment that has some chance of paying off". And if your in the cheated camp... you've already been cheated. The time to have fought that battle should have happened when the state structured and legally committed to this fund. Perhaps F1 is the wrong battle? We are paying whether it goes to F1 or not. But we're accustomed to seeing a lot of short sighted knee jerk reactions in Austin city dynamics... we're all desperate for a shared long term vision.
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  #363  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2011, 8:31 PM
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http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte..._chambers.html
Quote:
Hundreds pack council chambers for F1 discussion

By Marty Toohey | Thursday, June 23, 2011, 01:11 PM

Hundreds of people, some wearing white Formula 1 ballcaps, some wearing hardhats and bright construction vests, and most of them cramped shoulder to shoulder, packed the City Council chambers this morning to give testimony or simply watch as the council nears a scheduled vote on whether to endorse a track being built southeast of Austin.

The endorsement would make the project eligible for $25 million a year in state subsidies for 10 years. Track organizers say the proposal will rise or fall depending on whether the subsidies come through.

More than 250 people have signed up to address the council, according to the city. Since this morning, the council heard testimony for and against the track until its noon break — and, if the rest of the folks who signed up to speak do so, several more hours of testimony could be coming. (In high-profile issues, many of the people who sign up do so to indicate their support, not to speak.)
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  #364  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2011, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
(1) Does any event other than F1 get a part of that $25 Million/year from a state's trust fund? Why just F1? The correct answer = BRIBE.

(2) Look at the F1 history of the US Grand Prix in Watkins Glen once again, were there any major economic development started by "International" visitors near it? The correct answer = NO.

I'm tired of taxpayers being asked to support "pie in the sky", "chicken in every pot" economic developments, directly or indirectly.
Look at post #219 on page 11 of this thread for your answer to your first point. Lots of events get money from that fund.
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  #365  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2011, 10:00 PM
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So they pushed the vote to next week so Tovo could shoot it down.

Morrison is a nut. There is nothing that will ever get her to be ok with this. But I kinda got the feeling that next week there seems to be the support to get it to pass.

Edit: electricron, that $25 mil is already taken. It will never be used for anything that you would like it to be used for. If it doesn't go here, it will just go to getting another Superbowl or Final Four for Dallas or Houston. Early in this thread we were all bitching about how Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston always get so much money for these events and Austin always gets left out. This is why. We in Austin would much rather see that money go to education or pretty much anything other than sports. In Dallas, Houston, or SA they are happy to spend our money on sports and bring in all the money for their economy that those events provide. The money is gone. You and I have already spent it with our taxes. Those from Dallas could care less about the fact we in Austin pay for their Superbowl they had this year and got zero benefit from it. This is something that I and many others disagree with you on, in that we feel this would be great for our economy. The other Texas cities have shown and proven they don't mind spending our tax dollars for events like this in their cities. So I'm inclined to not care about spending their tax dollars on an event like this. Tax dollars that has already been taken and will never go to education and other things that I would rather them go to. Tax dollars that if not spent on this in Austin, will go to some stupid football or basketball game in another city.
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  #366  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2011, 11:12 PM
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The F1 dream is over..dead as Einstein's mother..Even former backers are giving up the fight...The effects of this will cause problems for years...The no-growth crowd will realize that they can completely control every aspect of this city's life..morrison and tovo are now the most powerful people in town and tovo hasn't even taken office..morrison will be elected mayor in the next election and that will close the doors and turn out the lights on Austin..Shame on the impotent business community for being so helpless in this on going battle.
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  #367  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2011, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
The F1 dream is over..dead as Einstein's mother..Even former backers are giving up the fight...The effects of this will cause problems for years...The no-growth crowd will realize that they can completely control every aspect of this city's life..morrison and tovo are now the most powerful people in town and tovo hasn't even taken office..morrison will be elected mayor in the next election and that will close the doors and turn out the lights on Austin..Shame on the impotent business community for being so helpless in this on going battle.
...the F1 dream is not over by a longshot.
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  #368  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2011, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
The F1 dream is over..dead as Einstein's mother..Even former backers are giving up the fight...The effects of this will cause problems for years...The no-growth crowd will realize that they can completely control every aspect of this city's life..morrison and tovo are now the most powerful people in town and tovo hasn't even taken office..morrison will be elected mayor in the next election and that will close the doors and turn out the lights on Austin..Shame on the impotent business community for being so helpless in this on going battle.
Over?

If it is, then that proves how stupid Austin is.

But somebody else is going to reap the tax benefits.
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  #369  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 12:02 AM
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A banker friend in Dallas once said Austin was a city of smart people governed by people who weren't so smart...
I'm not the city attorney but won't the cancellation of the track and the stoppage of WTP4 result in some kind of lawsuits?
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  #370  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
The F1 dream is over..dead as Einstein's mother..Even former backers are giving up the fight...The effects of this will cause problems for years...The no-growth crowd will realize that they can completely control every aspect of this city's life..morrison and tovo are now the most powerful people in town and tovo hasn't even taken office..morrison will be elected mayor in the next election and that will close the doors and turn out the lights on Austin..Shame on the impotent business community for being so helpless in this on going battle.
Based on your posting history, you should change your name to SkyFalling or GlassHalfEmpty.
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  #371  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 1:29 AM
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How about the Realist....After more than forty years observing Austin's politics and policies, I know what i know..I'm very wealthy(hurray for me) and am privy to info that you will never hear.
Regardless, the track is in trouble. The no-growth wackos are rallying around this issue as though their lives depend on it...They can't afford to lose.
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  #372  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 3:42 AM
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Open letter to city of Austin from AutoWeek editor, re F1, run away!

Open letter to city of Austin from AutoWeek editor, re F1, run away!
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Quote:
By DUTCH MANDEL on 6/22/2011


As the editorial director of America's largest racing magazine and a guy who has grown up around racing and racers, who has worked for a professional race team and who was weaned on horsepower and Castrol fumes, I have two words for the Austin City Council and its constituents before Thursday's vote to bless the proposed 2012 Austin Grand Prix:

Run away.

I don't say this out of spite or malice. I want a Formula One event in the United States as much as anyone does. But Austin is already what's right in America! It's a city that's, by almost all accounts, vibrant and exciting, filled with great music, people and food. It has extraordinary educational facilities and fantastic surrounding scenery and carries a thoughtful and an eclectic vibe. Austin is comfortable in its own skin, and as a resident of a city--Detroit--that has long yearned to redefine itself and its reputation, I say that if you allow Bernie Ecclestone and his F1 circus to attach themselves remora-like to you, dear Austin, it will be an enormous and very expensive lesson.

If I read correctly, the Austin race organizers are ready to pay $4 million annually to trigger access to a Texas state fund and, later on, access to revenue generated by sales tax attributable directly to the race that will cover the $25 million or so that Ecclestone charges promoters each year to host F1.

Hey, I want that deal. For $40 million I give you, you give me a quarter billion, right?

You council members know to whom the money flows, right? Take a Google gander at Ecclestone, he who holds F1's marketing rights. (You may stumble on recent news accounts of his 22-year-old daughter, Petra, who last week paid $85 million for Candy Spelling's Los Angeles-area mansion . . . to go with her $90 million crib in London. But I digress.)

Know that nothing happens without Bernie's approval and his piece of the take. Nothing. If you want a "green space," he'll get his green, too. The local "Rattlesnake Burgers" sold trackside for $10 a pop? Mr. E probably takes $3 apiece.

The point, gentle people of Austin, is not to be rushed into doing anything you don't want to do. If after sufficient due diligence--surely you've talked with past U.S. F1 organizers and city fathers from, say, Indianapolis, Phoenix, Watkins Glen, Long Beach and Detroit and heard their collective tal e of woe. If you want to offer up keys (and every other city part) to F1, that's your choice. But think about this: If the cradle of American motorsports, the home of the Greatest Spectacle in Racing, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, failed to keep F1 in America, what makes Austin--not the promoters, who have a bunch of reasons, maybe quite true, for why they are different--think it can succeed? Again, I'm talking to the fine people of Austin, not the people directly behind the track project.

Remember: Bernie always gets his money. Always.

Again, I like F1. AutoWeek has covered Grand Prix racing for all of our 53 years. I wake early to watch qualifying live from exotic locales such as Monaco and Seoul.

I just don't want to see you hurt. I like your city too much to have that happ en.
I am still very excited about this track and the positive implications of this. But as I learn more about the race's history in the US, I am beginning to worry.
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  #373  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
How about the Realist....After more than forty years observing Austin's politics and policies, I know what i know..I'm very wealthy(hurray for me) and am privy to info that you will never hear.
Regardless, the track is in trouble. The no-growth wackos are rallying around this issue as though their lives depend on it...They can't afford to lose.
I can't vouch for your wealth that you have brought up more than once which is irrelevant to everyone but you apparently. But I agree about Austin's history of no-growth wackos. Remember the Michelin tire facory anyone? Or the countless freeway improvements that no-growthers have shot down over the past 50 years? In the 1980s there was a strong "Yankee go home" mentality (with bumper stickers to prove it) when Rust Belt people (like me) first began moving here en masse. That mentality is no different than the constant anti-California sentiment that is so strong today. It amazes me that Austin has grown as much as it has over the past 30 years with so many no-growth wackos.

Thanks for istening. My rant is over.
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  #374  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 5:02 AM
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Amen to that...Wasn't there a movie development project planned several years ago east of town...The powers that be cold-shouldered that also.
I hate to be so negative, I love this city, but troublesome times could be ahead...These people,such as tovo, morrison, jacks and poor old mary arnold, have a vision that could do longterm damage to Austin...
I don't understand the defeatist attitude of the business community and the Chamber of Commerce on crucial issues such as the racetrack..Somebody, anybody, grab one of these radical a-holes and punch them in the face..At least put up a fight.
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  #375  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 5:09 AM
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I believe that movie studio turned out to be a con that was trying to rip off the city or county.
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  #376  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 6:51 AM
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Villa Muse I remember, the guy was a total scam artist because he couldn't get his way... anyways on F1, I doubt they'll cancel it because they already have so much invested in this project. Also the no growth people has some serious issues in life, you just can't keep living in the past, you must move foward...
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  #377  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 10:15 AM
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http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...e-1559215.html
Quote:
Austin council delays vote on whether to endorse F1

By Marty Toohey

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Updated: 11:38 p.m. Thursday, June 23, 2011
Published: 11:11 p.m. Thursday, June 23, 2011

Formula One will have to wait at least a few days more before getting a final answer from Austin.

The City Council — despite warnings from F1 organizers that the project could fall apart if not endorsed Thursday — decided instead to postpone a key vote until Wednesday: whether to approve an F1 race next year that would be held at a track under construction southeast of Austin.

Council members were mostly supportive of the event itself but said they were concerned the city had not fully vetted the details of pending contracts related to the city's official endorsement of the event. Some council members worried about loopholes in environmental requirements and in an agreement that would eliminate local taxpayer support for the event.
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  #378  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 10:45 AM
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I'm confused here.

Who is paying for the track?
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  #379  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 11:12 AM
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A number of investors from around Texas. Most notable one is Red Mccombs.
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  #380  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2011, 10:03 PM
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I recall the no-growth crowd objecting to tax incentives for Michael Dell's little computer company back in the early '90s, so he moved most of his operation to Round Rock.

How'd that work out for keeping Austin "smaller", and how many millions did the city lose in tax revenue over the past 15 years?
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