CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[left of center]

Great news! The more international destinations, the more flyers are funneled from domestic Midwestern airports into ORD, boosting passenger numbers. Time to plan a trip to Naxos

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by Chicagoguy

UNITED AIRLINES ADDS CHICAGO – ATHENS SERVICE

“United will offer nonstop Chicago (ORD) – Athens (ATH) service this year during the peak summer travel period, with daily flights running May 23, 2024 through August 12.

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-ai...hicago-athens/

Like it...Even though the latter is near Athens, I kind of feel that UA is missing the boat by not including Prague or Croatia on its summer season list. Over the past few years, I have known four different people/groups (all non-Croatians) who have made the trek to Croatia.

Plus we have the largest Croatian community inside the US.

The largest Croatian communities are in and around Chicago – around 150.000
https://hrvatiizvanrh.gov.hr/croats-...f-america/2485

[Justanothermember]

United resumes Winnipeg and Chicago-Quebec in NS24

United in Northern summer 2024 season continues to resume additional routes to Canada, previously served until 2020. This includes the carrier's service resumption to Winnipeg, as well as Chicago – Quebec City.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240126-uans24ca

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Like it...Even though the latter is near Athens, I kind of feel that UA is missing the boat by not including Prague or Croatia on its summer season list. Over the past few years, I have known four different people/groups (all non-Croatians) who have made the trek to Croatia.

Plus we have the largest Croatian community inside the US.

The largest Croatian communities are in and around Chicago – around 150.000
https://hrvatiizvanrh.gov.hr/croats-...f-america/2485

Tourists are probably going (mostly) to Dubrovnik, while emigrants are probably going to Zagreb? But yeah, United codeshares with Croatian Airlines, so maybe that's part of the reason (i.e. Croatian Airlines would want the transatlantic flight, but may not have the ability right now?).

[nomarandlee]

https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/02...ost-from-feds/

O'HARE
O’Hare Terminal 3 Makeover Gets $40 Million From Feds For Better Screening, Baggage Claim
The latest federal grant supports a $200 million overhaul that includes accessibility upgrades, adding concessions and revamping the baggage claim area.

By Molly DeVore
16 hours ago

O’Hare also received a $50 million Airport Terminal Program grant in 2023.

That federal funding will support upgrades at Terminal 3 including:

Turning two TSA checkpoints into a single, modernized screening area
Expanding the corridor between Concourse K and Concourse L
Revamping Terminal 3’s baggage claim area
Expanding gates K1 and L2A
Adding 10,000 square feet of concessions and amenity space
Renovating the terminal’s restrooms and adding a new family restroom
Improving energy efficiency
The work is part of a larger, $200 million Terminal 3 improvement project. The balance of the project will be paid for with previously allocated federal funds as well as airline rates and charges, according to a city press release.

Construction will begin this spring and will likely be completed in the summer of 2027, officials said. Construction will be completed in phases to allow for the continuous operation of Terminal 3....

..

[ithakas]

City proposes major spending cuts to key O'Hare terminal project


The Chicago Department of Aviation has come up with a plan to cut hundreds of millions in costs from the long-awaited terminal expansion and renovation at O’Hare, allowing it to stay within the original $6.1 billion budget for the project. Airlines, however, doubt the city's numbers.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/airl...rminal-project

[twister244]

Originally Posted by ithakas

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/airl...rminal-project

That's behind a paywall for me, but I'm assuming this means some serious VE to the OGT?

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by twister244

That's behind a paywall for me, but I'm assuming this means some serious VE to the OGT?

Same. Over at Airliners.net the summary is reported as....

- "Biden Admin, the airlines, Mayor's office, and the state have basically hashed out their issues re: funding and the project will basically proceed as originally planned, with minor tweaks to the Gang terminal."

- New savings would drop price tag of the Global Terminal from 2.10b to 1.83b.

- Other cost savings would be from revised baggage facilities (reduced 30% to $597 million) for the global terminals and satellites and from the new tunnel (would reduce 25% to $665 million).

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Same. Over at Airliners.net the summary is reported as....

- "Biden Admin, the airlines, Mayor's office, and the state have basically hashed out their issues re: funding and the project will basically proceed as originally planned, with minor tweaks to the Gang terminal."

- New savings would drop price tag of the Global Terminal from 2.10b to 1.83b.

- Other cost savings would be from revised baggage facilities (reduced 30% to $597 million) for the global terminals and satellites and from the new tunnel (would reduce 25% to $665 million).

Not quite. The article states the airlines don't trust what the CDA is saying with respect to cost savings.

“The CDA asserted it could build (the terminal project) within budget, contrary to the CDA’s repeated admissions over the last three years that it could not feasibly do so,“ the two carriers said in a letter last week to Aviation Commissioner Jamie Rhee that was obtained by Crain’s. "The CDA’s unfounded claim that it has reduced (terminal project) costs by $1.5 billion over the past six months is not credible, as there has been no authorized reduction in the (terminal project’s) required contractual scope over that period."

In their letter to Rhee, American and United wrote that “the CDA’s budget estimates lack credibility, given the CDA’s failure to disclose materials sufficient to show how the CDA has purportedly succeeded in meeting the (terminal project) budget for the first time."

[twister244]

Ugh.... What a shit show. What's more frustrating is we are getting to a point where any further delays from construction are going to be a result of this stalemate, and not any schedule problems. From what I can tell, work on filling in the central basin has been going on for a while now, so that should be finished over the coming weeks/months. Then there's really nothing holding the satellites back as I'm pretty sure the temporary gates in C are more/less done, along with any further taxiway construction.

[nomarandlee]

https://chicagoyimby.com/2024/03/rev...enderings.html

Revised Budget Revealed For O’Hare Expansion Ahead Of Revised Renderings

BY: IAN ACHONG 7:45 AM ON MARCH 2, 2024

.....This would be achieved by cutting nearly $300 million from the global terminal, 30-percent from the new baggage facilities, and 25-percent from the underground tunnels between the concourses.....

The airport is expected to release new renderings and additional information in the coming weeks....

Both of the remote concourses would need a new baggage system that connects back to the terminals, along with a tunnel that could one day hold a train as well; these were two of the components that saw a budget cut. While no further information is currently known, the airport is hoping to move forward with construction this year so as to not waste another summer season after receiving the go ahead from the FAA in 2022.

..

[nomarandlee]

Granted, anonymous forum internet rumors are what they are, but if true....hopefully they are true.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/view...9997&start=250
sz1998 wrote:
2. There will be some value engineering to this project. I have seen the renderings, but do not panic. They look great, honestly. The VE's are mainly coming from "below" the floor - baggage systems, layouts, etc. However, the OGT will still look incredible. It is is totally different design, but you can still expect soaring ceilings, central market areas, and more. It just looks different - but IMO it looks better and more in-line with what is stylistically popular *today*. Jeanne Gang is at the helm -- we're going to be fine. The sats also look nice.

[twister244]

Also noted by that poster is a groundbreaking announcement of the satellites by July - Which makes sense given the current state of construction activities at the moment.....

If we can still get a decent OGT along with new satellites, I will more than happy with that. I would love to see a IST or RYK airport terminal..... But that would be an unrealistic expectation.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Granted, anonymous forum internet rumors are what they are, but if true....hopefully they are true.

I hope that's the case; the interstitial, 'back to the drawing boards' design version 2.0 that I saw drawings for back in 2021-22 showed a very simplified ceiling design without the rows and rows of serrated wood baffling and glass skylights. Hopefully, a happy medium was agreed upon without compromising the overall integrity of the design, and that in fact, the VE-ing was done in other areas (while still maintaining the functionality of the new global terminal).

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Granted, anonymous forum internet rumors are what they are, but if true....hopefully they are true.

Glad to hear that they are still moving forward without compromising the design too much (assuming the source is correct).

I always figured that there would be some compromise in the design given that the scale of the wide open spaces in the original StudioORD renderings would definitely be costly to heat/cool. Honestly, I'd be very happy if the final design combines the nature and world class elements from StudioORD's design with the functionality and efficiency of Skidmore Owings & Merrill's design. I think that would still be a world class terminal that could compare to the best in the world.

I wonder when they will release the updated renderings for the satellites and Global Terminal. I look forward to seeing them when they do.

[Chicagoguy]

Chicago O’Hare Expects Strong Summer, Seeks Return To 2019 Traffic Levels

“Chicago O’Hare International Airport (ORD) recovered to 87.3% of 2019 passenger traffic levels in 2023, but the airport expects “sustained” growth this year and is optimistic about a “strong” summer season in which traffic will be close in on pre-pandemic levels.

ORD handled 73.9 million passengers in 2023, up 8.1% over 2022, but still down 12.7% from 2019, according to statistics released by the Chicago Department of Aviation (CDA), which runs ORD and Chicago Midway Airport (MDW). MDW handled 22 million passengers in 2023, up 10.7% over 2022 and a 5.5% increase over 2019. CDA notes MDW pushed past 2019 traffic levels in the 2023 first half.”

https://aviationweek.com/air-transpo...n-2019-traffic

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by twister244

Also noted by that poster is a groundbreaking announcement of the satellites by July - Which makes sense given the current state of construction activities at the moment.....

If we can still get a decent OGT along with new satellites, I will more than happy with that. I would love to see a IST or RYK airport terminal..... But that would be an unrealistic expectation.

Please keep us updated on your situation at ORD construction. Hope they started working on it soon. Fingers crossed for groundbreaking projects by July.

Let’s do this!!

[kbud]

British Airways announced that in April their departures at O’Hare will be from T3. Additionally, they will begin a third daily flight from Chicago to Heathrow later this year as well. This is great news other than losing the A380 service to Chicago.

I am curious: A) what will happen to British Airways and SAS’ club spaces at ORD? B) what other airlines will add clubs at T5 besides LOT? Emirates, Qatar, Etihad, and Cathay Pacific offer, premium business class and club service. Their lounge options at T5 are not good. C) what gate(s) will BA use at T3? When checking their schedule this summer, it looks like they’ll be bringing in a combination of 787–10s and the 777s. But I would imagine they want the flexibility to bring in the 77W and the A350–1000 too. K19 can probably handle all of those variants, but I’ve always wondered if there is another T3 widebody gate that can accommodate the 77W.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by kbud

British Airways announced that in April their departures at O’Hare will be from T3. Additionally, they will begin a third daily flight from Chicago to Heathrow later this year as well. This is great news other than losing the A380 service to Chicago.

I am curious: A) what will happen to British Airways and SAS’ club spaces at ORD? B) what other airlines will add clubs at T5 besides LOT? Emirates, Qatar, Etihad, and Cathay Pacific offer, premium business class and club service. Their lounge options at T5 are not good. C) what gate(s) will BA use at T3? When checking their schedule this summer, it looks like they’ll be bringing in a combination of 787–10s and the 777s. But I would imagine they want the flexibility to bring in the 77W and the A350–1000 too. K19 can probably handle all of those variants, but I’ve always wondered if there is another T3 widebody gate that can accommodate the 77W.

T3 has plenty of gate capacity for partners now that AA has retreated so much. I believe that AA allowing partners to use their gates will actually count toward AA's gate utilization for the purpose of the city's re-allocation process. So this is probably a move by AA to try to lose as few gates (likely to UA) as possible without having to actually add (as many) flights themselves.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by kbud

British Airways announced that in April their departures at O’Hare will be from T3. Additionally, they will begin a third daily flight from Chicago to Heathrow later this year as well. This is great news other than losing the A380 service to Chicago.

I am curious: A) what will happen to British Airways and SAS’ club spaces at ORD? B) what other airlines will add clubs at T5 besides LOT? Emirates, Qatar, Etihad, and Cathay Pacific offer, premium business class and club service. Their lounge options at T5 are not good. C) what gate(s) will BA use at T3? When checking their schedule this summer, it looks like they’ll be bringing in a combination of 787–10s and the 777s. But I would imagine they want the flexibility to bring in the 77W and the A350–1000 too. K19 can probably handle all of those variants, but I’ve always wondered if there is another T3 widebody gate that can accommodate the 77W.

With respect to SAS, I would expect that club to close since SAS is going to Sky Team, which is serviced by Delta's new lounge in T5. I'm not aware of any plans, but it would be nice to see that space converted into a new Priority Pass of some kind given Swissport is a joke.

It's entirely possible there may yet be another lounge announcement. I say this because the space that Delta occupies, as part of the T5 expansion, has a mirror space on the other side of the new buildout, close to M18. Delta's lounge is 21-22 k-sf, whereas the new LOT lounge will only be 6-7 k-sf. So, it's definitely possible to put another lounge in there that's 10+ k-sf.

The BA lounge will most likely close as well since BA is moving over to T3. Can't really do much with the space since it's to small for a modern lounge. Would be a nice spot to gut it and turn it into a new restaurant or retail. It's worth noting that on the contractor's page, there is going to be new airline club space will be going in. My guess is it's going to be a new AA lounge space that will be able to accommodate increasing numbers of OW members now in T3.

Which makes me wonder about the real reasons we keep hearing about updates to the expansion plans. With BA heading to T3, that leaves only four Oneworld flights in T5. If they ultimately move over to T3, it starts to make the case for AA having a share of the new OGT pretty weak. I wonder if UA smells blood and is forcing the city and AA to renegotiate the terms of the OGT. If AA doesn't want to commit to keeping their share of flights at O'Hare, I'm sure UA would fight to occupy a greater fraction of the OGT. A few gates can be for OW/AA international arrivals, with the remaining gates slotted for UA/Star-alliance departures. UA has no room to grow right now, and the fact LOT is building out a new lounge in T5 demonstrates there is an immediate need for more space on the UA side, while BA's move demonstrates AA continues to lag at ORD.