The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I'm curious as to whether the survey took ticket prices into account. If someone asked me if I'd take a 480 km/h train for the same price as a 200 km/h one, the choice would be obvious. Less so if I was paying thrice the price for twice the speed.

First a correction. The ridership forecast doesn’t double from 320 kph to 480kph, but it does go up by over 40%.

In answer to the question the short answer is yes, the ticket price was factored in, and the long answer is that the methodology and surveys are online, so you can see for yourself if you’re interested. Here’s the TEMS report which describes the methodology, but I notice that the appendix that gives more details on the surveys isn’t attached to this document. I do remember seeing it on the government of Alberta site, however, so if you’re interested you can find it there.
http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Con...ssessment_Full_Rpt_02-2008_FINAL_rev.pdf

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by VIce

I imagine it was a tire load limit issue and not an axle load limit. A modern commercial tire is a pretty technology-packed device compared to what they were rolling on pre-war.

That would be my guess too. Notice that there are no double tire wheels like modern buses have at the rear, and that the engine is at the front meaning there is weight in front and in back whereas in modern transit buses the engine is almost universally at the back. And since older tires were actually made of real rubber which is not as strong as the modern blend of tire materials, it makes sense.

[dleung]

Here's a question. In what world did this project successfully build a business case and already halfway through construction?

Originally Posted by dleung

Yes, that's all the stations being built. The nothingness isn't just a blip on the route to a worthwhile destination; the whole route runs down the middle of a 10km swath of industrial land and hydro corridors, where no one lives. The projected ridership in 2030 is 80,000, less than the Millenium Line. So why does it cost 3 billion?




Well the stations look very expensive, yet hideous at the same time








They're also located in the middle of nowhere and served primarily by park and rides.



http://urbantoronto.ca

Here's the kicker... you'd think they'd go elevated or at-grade here, or at least do cut-and-cover in such a no-man's zone, but the entire route is bored tunnel

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by dleung

Here's a question. Inpoints world did this project successfully build a business case and already halfway through construction?

The Rich Vaughan Mafia is paying for it!

I hope that answers your question.

[Innsertnamehere]

Here is the low down on each station:

Sheppard West, now called Downsview park:

Probably the most useless on the line, only a singular connection to the Sheppard bus, which is almost empty at this point. It will have people transferring from the Barrie line, but that will be a minimum amount.

Finch West:

Future connection and terminus of the Finch LRT. currently one of the busiest bus routes in the city. Uses the hydro corridor for a huge amount of commuter parking, enough for something like 1,500 users. (paid parking of course)

York University:

Somewhat self-explanatory, serves a university with over 60,000 students and employees.

Pioneer Village:

Major bus Terminal for YRT, another large commuter lot. Connects to the Steeles bus, another busy bus route.

Highway 407:

Major GO connections, intercepts the large amounts of buses using the 407 today as well as the future 407 transitway.

Vaughan Metropolitan Centre:

intercepts the highway 7 VIVA BRT, as well as the future city centre of Vaughan. (however far off that is to actually being realized, nobody knows. There are a few condos and an office building already going up though) A large YRT bus terminal as well.

The line will also provide 8% relief from the Yonge line, as more YRT and GO riders will be getting on here than what they currently do by getting on at Finch.

The TTC originally wanted to build it to Pioneer Village (Steeles), with an extremely oversized bus terminal located there. The idea was to sync up the huge amount of buses currently driving into York U and sit them at Pioneer (within walking distance of York U) and just generally improve the rather convoluted bus system currently in the North-west end of the city. York Region asked to extend it the further 2 stops, and was willing to pay for it, so it got extended further. That extension didn't really add any significant ridership, so its really should be closer to a $1.8 billion project compared to the $2.6 billion project it currently is.

I also feel the ridership numbers are a bit low, YRT is planning HUGE frequency increases in the area once it opens which will bring in a lot of riders that they weren't planning for a decade ago when the line was designed.

[WhipperSnapper]

I don't know if I'd refer to a major university as nothingness. I see no reason Vaughan City Centre won't have a skyline to rival any suburban skyline. Top ministers at the time of approval are heavily invested in that property.

[Innsertnamehere]

The ontario transport minister's riding was the location of Vaughan centre if that is what you mean. they had no financial interest. Smart centres (builder of most wal marts in southern ontario) are the ones who lucked out, half of VMC is owned by them.

[dleung]

This is all they should have done, and it would've been good enough for a few decades for that part of town.


Half the distance x Half the per-km cost = 1/4 cost, same ridership, ~$700 million? Save the other $2 billion for DRL.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Construction is starting for the new James St N GO Station, will be completed before the 2015 Pan Am Games...


https://twitter.com/HSRTransit/status/436518275871019009/photo/1

Looks like the Minister might also announce all day GO Train service to Hamilton today


Contractors selected for new James Street North GO station

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/439006...d-for-new-james-street-north-go-station/

Transportation Minister Glen Murray will announce the contractors for the new James Street North GO station Friday during a visit to Hamilton.

Sources say the minister will make the announcement during a lunch address to the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce.

The minister's office sent a release out Thursday announcing his visit with GO Transit president Greg Percy "to provide an update on the progress of the James Street North GO station." The station is expected to be open in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games and help tourists get to the soccer competition at the new Tim Hortons Field.

Premier Kathleen Wynne told The Spectator in September her government was committed to bringing all-day GO service to the station, but Murray said in the summer it would only see four trains a day. Mayor Bob Bratina has been a big booster of all-day GO service for Hamilton at the station.

The minister, Percy and local cabinet minister Ted McMeekin will gather at the site of the station on James Street North before heading to the luncheon at Sarcoa Restaurant.

Ward 2 Councillor Jason Farr is looking forward to the minister's announcement and clarification on when all-day service would start. He said it will be a "game changer" for the neighbourhood and spur investment.

"It's a massive game-changer, all-day GO service," Farr said. "Now we'll definitely see those investors come forward who are sitting on the fence (about residential development). They would put that on their brochures."

One source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said they have been told that construction on the station "has already started" and that the minister will be "announcing the contract winners."

Another source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the minister will also weigh in on the proposed Light Rail Transit (LRT) project for Hamilton.

There is no funding for it, but it is part of the second phase of The Big Move transit plan for the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area....

The station is expected to be built in two phases. This year, contractors will build the station, north and south platforms, parking, bus loops and pedestrian and bicycle pathways. In 2015, construction will involve an urban plaza and pedestrian bridges or tunnels to provide easy access to the platforms.

[SteelTown]

Murray, the Ont. transportation minister, announced that Mississauga firm Kenaidan, won the $44m contract for the project. Total project cost $60M.


Cory Ruf
https://twitter.com/CoryRuf/status/439453202686017537/photo/1


Metrolinx
https://twitter.com/Metrolinx

[caltrane74]

I don't recognize this area.

[SteelTown]

The last picture you see LIUNA Station and the bridge is James St North. New station will go west of LIUNA Station, former CN/VIA/GO Station.

[caltrane74]

OK, I thought it was going to be built at the site of the existing facility.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by dleung

This is all they should have done, and it would've been good enough for a few decades for that part of town.


Half the distance x Half the per-km cost = 1/4 cost, same ridership, ~$700 million? Save the other $2 billion for DRL.

So, mothball Downsview which is see large intensification for a new tunnel and new station and continue with an elevated subway to York University. No thanks.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The ontario transport minister's riding was the location of Vaughan centre if that is what you mean. they had no financial interest. Smart centres (builder of most wal marts in southern ontario) are the ones who lucked out, half of VMC is owned by them.

No and Calloway REIT owns most of Vaughan Centre. Smartcentres developed and manages some of their property.

[Echowinds]

I thought the map drawn by dleung is to suggest to elevate the line after Downsview, removing the station at Shepperd West, and have 2 stations at Finch West and York University. Downsview as a station is kept. It is head-scratching why the TTC did not choose to build a much cheaper elevated option in an area that has the space to do so. It's as if Vancouver decided to make a gold-plated subway to Port Coquitlam, which makes absolutely no sense, when the Broadway line is far more needed.

There's no doubt that the saved money can contribute to the badly-needed DRL, which is way more cost-effective than this current expansion. Arguably there's 2-3 subway projects in Toronto that are more useful than this current Vaughan expansion, since the stations beyond York University is only justified with connections to bus routes, which should be relatively secondary compared to actually servicing dense regions. Obviously it's almost done and there's no use to cry about it, but the Spadina extension always seemed to me a luxury infrastructure while ignoring more important projects.

Transit expansions such as the Union Pearson Express is smart, because it connects important areas for relatively little money.

[J.OT13]

The Vaughn subway extension, that is why we hate Toronto. I know it's not Toronto's fault, but every time they come up with any transit plan, no matter how half assed or virtually useless, Queen's Park jumps in to throw giant money bags to the City. A lot of the time, Queen's Park contributes much more than its 1/3. Same with the Scarborough Subway and the Province owned GO transit.

Meanwhile, it took a lot for Ottawa to get funding for the initial ORT, yet the City is still on the hook for more than its 1/3. And now we are looking to the upper tier governments to fund Stage 2 of the ORT. All we ask is 1 billion from each government to add 35 km, 26 stations serving somewhere around 400,000 people within a 1 km walk of the line.

We know it's not Toronto's fault, but it is still frustrating.

[Beedok]

Oy, don't complain in Ottawa. The Federal government at least acknowledges you. Most folks seem to have forgotten Hamilton, London, and KWC exist.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

No and Calloway REIT owns most of Vaughan Centre. Smartcentres developed and manages some of their property.

my understanding is that Calloway was in some way owned by smart centres? I know Smart Centres owned the property when construction began, thus the half built Smart Centre that is currently there with the Future shop and Wal Mart.


Also, the current plan is to rename the current Downsview station "Sheppard West", and have the new station with the Barrie line be called "Downsview Park".


In other news today, the LRT bid for Kitchener came under budget today, at $532 million to construct compared to the $542 projected.

As for the Spadina subway, Toronto begged the province for a decade and a half to get that funding. The project has been on the books since the late 1980's.

The gap between Spadina and Sheppard will be 14 years between openings, the longest Toronto has ever gone without some form of subway expansion.

Queens park contributed roughly 30% to this project as well.

you also have to remember that Toronto contains roughly 1/2 of Ontario's population.. it will obviously be getting more infrastructure spending.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Oy, don't complain in Ottawa. The Federal government at least acknowledges you. Most folks seem to have forgotten Hamilton, London, and KWC exist.

The only way the feds are acknowledging Ottawa is by demanding exorbitantly expensive modifications to our transit plans to protect "nationally significant" grass along a river side highway. Oh, and attempt to destroy the City's economy by laying off 20,000 public servants and taking away benefits to PS retirees while protecting perks and benefits to politicians and governmental big wigs (like that General who received 70,000$ to move a few blocks away from his old house).