VIA Rail

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by esquire

There must be a pretty strong incentive considering CP went to the massive effort of double-tracking the Portage la Prairie-Thunder Bay mainline only to remove the second track once centralized traffic control allowed them to do so and maintain a similar level of operation.

I have heard that the maintenance of the second track was higher than the savings of having it.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Are you saying that Amtrak is forcing freight off the rails?

Amtrak is not forcing freight off the rails in the US. The US has similar problems as we have with on time performance, but not to the same degree. Amtrak is hesitant to take the railways to court even though technically they are supposed to give Amtrak priority. Amtrak only owns about 3% of the route miles. CN is one of the bad boys, but not the worst as shown on Amtrak's web page listed below;

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/HostRailroadReports/Amtrak-2020-Host-Railroad-Report-Card-FAQs.pdf

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

We are at a point where freight is moving as fast as it can but is bottlenecked all over the country. This is why one of the things I feel should be forced is on all mainlines, it must be at least double tracked. Give CN/CP a reasonable time of 25 years to do it. The other thing that should be done is in the corridor, where it is already double tracked, a 3rd track for passenger rail only is needed.

I am sorry but that train has left the station long ago. Since the privatization of CN and the BCR, most rail lines in Canada are privately owned or under long term leases. The only mainline track currently owned by government agencies are ONR and sections of GO Transit, Eco and Via Rail. Good luck getting the government to pay for that. The delays on getting HFR to the construction stage shows how slowly governments move.

The 3rd track on the CN lakeshore route funded by the government just resulted in a free subsidy to CN with no increase in on time performance of Via trains at a cost of approximately 900 million$. Any improvements to trackage should come with some claw back or control by the government to prevent the railways from ripping up other double track or sidings so that they can reuse the rail elsewhere.

The government may be able to control the use of over length trains by not allowing trains of a certain size to operate until there is a sufficient number of extended sidings or double track to operate freights so that delays are minimized.

The government should be able to control the abandonment of rail lines so network redundancy and passenger rail networks are maintained.

Although the idea of the government creating a RailTrack owning the trackage here like the government did in the UK has some merit but the costs would be astronomical and would be subject to long court cases resulting in it being impractical.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Well, GO is a go in London. Toronto to London via Stratford & St. Mary's but it will take 4 hours - wow that won't attract many.

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...-go-for-london

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Well, GO is a go in London. Toronto to London via Stratford & St. Mary's but it will take 4 hours - wow that won't attract many.

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...-go-for-london

If the times work better than the existing Via schedule, it might. Anything between Toronto and Kitchener is congested, so this will mean those that already drive the 2-3 hours may see this as a good thing. It may also spur improvements on the line. I'd give it a year and see where the numbers are actually at.

[Innsertnamehere]

It would be much easier and way faster for people from London to just drive to Aldershot. the 403 is pretty well uncongested until then and it would only take about 2.5hrs instead of 4.

[Nouvellecosse]

Anyone know how long VIA takes to make the trip and what the schedule and ridership are like in comparison?

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Well, GO is a go in London. Toronto to London via Stratford & St. Mary's but it will take 4 hours - wow that won't attract many.

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...-go-for-london

But are they really looking to attract the London-Toronto passenger? Already faster for those to use the VIA route through Brantford. Perhaps they are looking at the passengers from say Stratford to London and Toronto.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Fastest Via train is currently 2 hours, 6 mins, but some take up to 3 hours. There are a total of 6 trains right now.

I think many Londoners are thinking the GO option might be a nice day trip to Stratford or St. Mary's.

[hipster duck]

On one hand, the GO service to London is a joke. It's a 4 hour trip to Toronto, a 2 hour trip to Kitchener, and there's only one train a day. It's not competitive for any person in London who wants to travel to an actual destination en route.

On the other hand, it does establish a beachhead for Metrolinx in Southwestern Ontario. I can see why they went for it. Local politicians just want to do the bare minimum to check a box, which this train does, but Metrolinx can't purchase a line and then go through the more difficult effort of buying the track and then making expensive upgrades unless it's running a service first, even if that service is extremely bare bones.

And, hey, as little of an improvement as this train is, it's more than any effort VIA has ever put into this line, which is zero.

[Floppa]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

It would be much easier and way faster for people from London to just drive to Aldershot. the 403 is pretty well uncongested until then and it would only take about 2.5hrs instead of 4.

Yes but those 4 hours can be spent working, napping, reading, eating etc; whereas 5 hours of driving is completely unproductive

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Floppa

Yes but those 4 hours can be spent working, napping, reading, eating etc; whereas 5 hours of driving is completely unproductive

Well, Toronto-London by car is roughly 2.5hrs depending on traffic, so if you've got eight hours of work to burn on a return trip via GO...

I don't mind GO's plan to extend to London. Whatever gets us better connectivity in SW and Southern Ontario as a whole. The first phase is very light but hopefully we see improved frequencies in the coming years.

[matt602]

The existing VIA rail service from Aldershot to London was ridiculously expensive last time I checked, so even at 4 hours from Union I'd consider it if it were significantly less. I would have to take the extra time to get to Union from Hamilton though since apparently its impossible to go straight from Hamilton to Kitchener by public transit...

[ssiguy]

As track improvements come along along with electric trains, speeds will increase drawing more riders. As it does I think you will begin to see the introduction of express routes ie London/KW/Pearson/Union greatly reducing travel times. This would eat into VIA's ridership and may force them to finally invest in the London/Alder/Union route.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

But are they really looking to attract the London-Toronto passenger? Already faster for those to use the VIA route through Brantford. Perhaps they are looking at the passengers from say Stratford to London and Toronto.

Prior to 2012 VIA had several trains per day through Stratford, and the cuts to VIA service there had a negative impact on tourism there as I recall - it was no longer possible to do a day trip up there from London to see a show at the festival without driving. This at least gives Londoners another option for getting to or from Stratford, in addition to the existing VIA train - and certainly will be helpful for linkages between Stratford, K-W and Guelph.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Prior to 2012 VIA had several trains per day through Stratford, and the cuts to VIA service there had a negative impact on tourism there as I recall - it was no longer possible to do a day trip up there from London to see a show at the festival without driving. This at least gives Londoners another option for getting to or from Stratford, in addition to the existing VIA train - and certainly will be helpful for linkages between Stratford, K-W and Guelph.

If you are interested in going to Stratford at 5am and waiting until about 7pm to come home. This also only runs weekdays.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Anyone know how long VIA takes to make the trip and what the schedule and ridership are like in comparison?

Not sure how many trains on the London-Kitchener-Toronto line VIA currently has. They were doing I think 2 a day each way pre-pandemic, used to see one leaving London around 730am, and one returning to London mid afternoon. They take about 3.5 hours on the same route GO is using. VIA takes a little over 2 hours to Toronto via the higher speed southern route through Brantford.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

If you are interested in going to Stratford at 5am and waiting until about 7pm to come home. This also only runs weekdays.

Where have you seen the planned times for these trains? I haven't seen them in any of the articles I've read so far.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by jamincan

Where have you seen the planned times for these trains? I haven't seen them in any of the articles I've read so far.

From CTV News:

The pilot project will see a train leaving from London daily at 5:20 in the morning arriving at union at 9:15 a.m. and one return train leaving Toronto at 4:19 in the afternoon arriving in London at 8:17 p.m.

[Nouvellecosse]

It arrives at Union at 9:15 and departs at 4:19? So basically even if someone was desperate and/or crazy enough to want to commute with it to Toronto, It arrives too late in the morning and departs too early in the afternoon for a standard 9-5 or 8:30-4:30 commuter. Yet it's too early for recreational visitors to Stratford. Maybe it's mostly for people commuting from London to Kitchener? I don't personally see the use for it but... ok.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

If you are interested in going to Stratford at 5am and waiting until about 7pm to come home. This also only runs weekdays.

Damn, that sucks. Hopefully they’ll add more over time.