AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by M1EK

You knew the GL people don't think it will take 10 or 20 years to get it back to the polls if this one fails,

What honestly makes you think it will be any quicker (and not even longer)?


1. Last time it took 14 years between proposals of a major system (the red line wasn't a major system).

2. 10-1 will make Austin even more balkanized. You already have people that are against the proposal because it doesn't serve their particular part of Austin (e.g. SW Austin). Now you'll have the council members be the same way. What incentive will there be for them to propose and vote for a system that serves the constituencies of just one or two council members? There's no opportunity for a quid pro quo, one area will get a billion dollar project and every other district won't.

3. Every year Austin gets more and more suburban and less dense. Every year it's harder and harder to propose a system that "serves the inner city and doesn't help the suburban driver" (quotes because I don't actually believe this, but many do). Every year there will be less and less available right of way, more pressure to turn it into lanes, and more traffic using those lanes that will be against lane removal.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by M1EK

You knew the GL people don't think it will take 10 or 20 years to get it back to the polls if this one fails, yet you made your initial claim anyways.

I'll agree, getting back to the polls can happen much faster. I disagree that getting it built in another location in less than 10 years is unlikely if using federal funds to build it. The FEIS process seems to take a minimum of 10 years to complete - with construction starting later.
Just look at the recent Austin experiences. With the defeat of the 2000 light rail proposal at the polls, the FEIS process that eventually built the rapid bus lines took 10 years to complete and a few more years to build. It's 2014 and they're just starting to run the rapid bus services, 13 to 14 years later after the defeat. I don't expect light rail trains running on Guadalupe any quicker if the present referendum fails = 2014 + 13 = 2027. Can Austin afford to wait until 2027 before running any trams?
I'm also worrying about where they plan to build the maintenance shed and yard? Nimbys aren't going to like it next door, and there's been no word at all where they plan to build it. I don't think residential, governmental, hospital, and university neighborhoods as the proper place for one, an industrial area will be far more appropriate, yet I don't see an industrial area on the proposed corridor......

[tildahat]

Originally Posted by M1EK

"I think Chris wants to vote for Highland rail because he wants to set puppies on fire. He can correct me if I'm wrong."

You knew the GL people don't think it will take 10 or 20 years to get it back to the polls if this one fails, yet you made your initial claim anyways.

Honestly, I didn't know that. I assumed people voting against it were willingly taking on the risk that it could be 10 or more years, though they would hope that it wouldn't. This is the first time I've seen the explicit argument that it could come up in a few years, but I have spent a lot less time following this stuff than in the past, so maybe I'm at fault in my assumption. OK, I can accept that.

And I suppose it could come up again rapidly. But IMHO it's unlikely, or I'd be more inclined to oppose this route. And again, I didn't mention "the GL people," you did. I was only trying to characterize your opinion, which you clearly think I did a poor job of. Sorry. But I had no nefarious motive.

And lest there be any confusion, I am opposed to burning puppies.

Originally Posted by M1EK

If you want to just support the political machine, do so; but I'm in no mood any more to pretend not to notice. We agree on nothing if you support Highland rail, because if we build Highland rail, everything else falls apart.

I'm not "supporting the political machine" just making a judgement about an imperfect policy proposal. Most policies come from one machine or another.

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by Novacek

No, you didn't.

I'm not going to respond to your claims until you do what I said you needed to do. Explain who you are, and why you care this much.

Bus service was cut after the Red Line delayed and overran. Your argument is that other reasons might have also been to blame, but the timing is extremely suspect. In addition, the Capital Metro team at the time did NOT say anything about these bus overruns; they simply claimed that bus service overall was increasing (which I proved to be false). The bus overruns were also short-term ups and downs; the rail overruns were most definitely not.

Nonetheless, whether it's because you have a friend or family involved with Capital Metro, Project Connect, the city, or whomever; you've done this same act with three or four other bloggers in Austin - demanding proof as if you were in a courtroom rather than taking their word for some things. Now, with some random jackass? I agree - you shouldn't just take their word for things. But don't be surprised if when you pull this act with people who actually identify themselves and have a long history, you end up making far more enemies than you think you should. Nothing gets more irritating than some fly buzzing around saying "Prove it!" after every sentence you make.

People here know who I am. When I say Lee Walker said things to Central Austin residents, it's because I spoke to people who were in those conversations. No, that would not hold up in a court of law unless I could drag them in and force them to testify under oath without the 5th amendment. But you can, and should, trust me - as I have a history of writing about this and being involved in the process as far back as 2000. I was sitting in meetings of the UTC before the 2000 and 2004 rail proposals. I was in a short focus meeting for the 2008 proposal. I've been in the room where the diagrams were for one proposal of how to handle the narrow stretch on Guadalupe. Where were you?

All you have, in comparison, is tearing other people down from behind the cloak of anonymity. And there has to be more in it for you than "you don't like when people make 'provably false' [sic] claims".

[M1EK]

Originally Posted by electricron

I'll agree, getting back to the polls can happen much faster. I disagree that getting it built in another location in less than 10 years is unlikely if using federal funds to build it. The FEIS process seems to take a minimum of 10 years to complete - with construction starting later.
Just look at the recent Austin experiences. With the defeat of the 2000 light rail proposal at the polls, the FEIS process that eventually built the rapid bus lines took 10 years to complete and a few more years to build. It's 2014 and they're just starting to run the rapid bus services, 13 to 14 years later after the defeat. I don't expect light rail trains running on Guadalupe any quicker if the present referendum fails = 2014 + 13 = 2027. Can Austin afford to wait until 2027 before running any trams?
I'm also worrying about where they plan to build the maintenance shed and yard? Nimbys aren't going to like it next door, and there's been no word at all where they plan to build it. I don't think residential, governmental, hospital, and university neighborhoods as the proper place for one, an industrial area will be far more appropriate, yet I don't see an industrial area on the proposed corridor......

The reason rapid bus took this long is that McCracken and Leffingwell stopped it in 2006 and it was restarted around 2009.

As for the timelines above, you can add 10 years from whichever election you want - the time distance between the elections is still the time difference between first trains, unless one plan takes longer to build than the other.

If we run trams on Highland, we will run trams ONLY on Highland until most of us in this conversation are dead. That's the true risk here.

[austlar1]

Never mind again.

[MichaelB]

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/bl...t-plan-is.html

hope this posts…..
I kinda think this will be a broad point of view.

[KevinFromTexas]

*Posts deleted*

M1EK and Novacek, please do not ruin this thread with your off topic and petty bickering. You can privately message each other instead of doing that. M1EK, and this applies to everyone, you cannot use language that personally offends others on the forum. It distracts from your argument and takes away the legitimacy of your point. It is also offensive to others and makes you look petty and cruel. It is not ok and is not the way to get your point across.

[Jdawgboy]

We have spent decades in this city bickering and fighting over transportation and look where it's brought us. There is no more time to argue anymore. The city is long past the point of no return, we need to act and we need to act NOW!

People who continue to push against any effort to expand rail and other transportation options at this point and succeed will be sealing Austin's fate in decline and I will put all the blame on them when our city chokes to death.Enough is enough!!!!

For the sake of the health and vitality of our city, whether you agree with the route or not, let's pass this and move on to expanding it. We do not have any more time to sit and wait even for a couple of years for something else to come along that will likely juat get shot down yet again.

I get so irritated with people who complain about the traffic yet they turn around and fight against anything practical to help it. Time to wake up to reality, there isn't going to be much road expansion and what little there is will be tolled. I don't like tolls but in this day and age and in this state, that's just how it's going to be. People seem to live in a fantasy world and think they can live in a city that has chosen its route for future growth to build up not out and increase desnsity in the core and still go around driving their cars and think that saying no to mass transit is ok.

Also for those who don't like the price tag, get over it! If your going to do something right that will benefit the city in the long term even if it costs more then just do it. There are all kinds of examples around Austin that shows the results of taking the cheap halfassed option. Look at the idiotic I-35/183 interchange. Seems to me pointless fighting over price unless you just don't care about quality or the fact that it doesn't solve the issue and just creates more problems.

Sorry if Im also heated but seeing the posts above just set me off. Stop fighting and actually contribute to fixing the problem cause attacking each other does nothing but polerize any effort to save our city.

[audiomuse]

Commuting by bicycle on the rise in Austin

http://www.austin360.com/weblogs/fit...uting-bicycle/

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

We have spent decades in this city bickering and fighting over transportation and look where it's brought us. There is no more time to argue anymore. The city is long past the point of no return, we need to act and we need to act NOW!

People who continue to push against any effort to expand rail and other transportation options at this point and succeed will be sealing Austin's fate in decline and I will put all the blame on them when our city chokes to death.Enough is enough!!!!

For the sake of the health and vitality of our city, whether you agree with the route or not, let's pass this and move on to expanding it. We do not have any more time to sit and wait even for a couple of years for something else to come along that will likely juat get shot down yet again.

I get so irritated with people who complain about the traffic yet they turn around and fight against anything practical to help it. Time to wake up to reality, there isn't going to be much road expansion and what little there is will be tolled. I don't like tolls but in this day and age and in this state, that's just how it's going to be. People seem to live in a fantasy world and think they can live in a city that has chosen its route for future growth to build up not out and increase desnsity in the core and still go around driving their cars and think that saying no to mass transit is ok.

Also for those who don't like the price tag, get over it! If your going to do something right that will benefit the city in the long term even if it costs more then just do it. There are all kinds of examples around Austin that shows the results of taking the cheap halfassed option. Look at the idiotic I-35/183 interchange. Seems to me pointless fighting over price unless you just don't care about quality or the fact that it doesn't solve the issue and just creates more problems.

Sorry if Im also heated but seeing the posts above just set me off. Stop fighting and actually contribute to fixing the problem cause attacking each other does nothing but polerize any effort to save our city.

Exactly.

[The ATX]

I have only occasionally checked this thread over the past few years because of the constant off putting one-upmanship and personal attacks. But I think it is just indicative of the city as a whole when it comes to mass transit and congestion solutions.

[migol24]

Originally Posted by Hill Country

I have only occasionally checked this thread over the past few years because of the constant off putting one-upmanship and personal attacks. But I think it is just indicative of the city as a whole when it comes to mass transit and congestion solutions.

Exactly. Everybody has very strong opinions about this topic. It's insane. Austin is a weird town in that respect.

[jtown,man]

I think its great. It means the city is healthy. We're not talking about losing population, crime, bad economy etc etc.....

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I think its great. It means the city is healthy. We're not talking about losing population, crime, bad economy etc etc.....

We have become spoiled in Austin with all of the projects. If you look at threads in other cities, (which I won't name because of the extremely defensive, PC nature of many SSP posters) renderings of things like parking garages and 4-story apartment buildings are big news.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Hill Country

We have become spoiled in Austin with all of the projects. If you look at threads in other cities, (which I won't name because of the extremely defensive, PC nature of many SSP posters) renderings of things like parking garages and 4-story apartment buildings are big news.

No kidding. I feel bad for em, but I was one of em(rooting for Memphis) so I know how good it feels just to get a decent sized business opening up. People are spoiled here, but its all relative. Look at the Chicago and NYC forums, they don't even cover some projects which would be great additions here(namely S Lamar type development).

Oh well, as long as the good times keep coming, I am happy. And if they don't, well, at least there will be less traffic and still a good skyline and one of the best urban communities in Texas.

***On second thought, of course NYC and Chicago are less concerned with smaller projects, they have millions and millions of people.

For its population, Austin is hands down the most active as far as high rise construction right now, right?

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

No kidding. I feel bad for em, but I was one of em(rooting for Memphis) so I know how good it feels just to get a decent sized business opening up. People are spoiled here, but its all relative. Look at the Chicago and NYC forums, they don't even cover some projects which would be great additions here(namely S Lamar type development).

Oh well, as long as the good times keep coming, I am happy. And if they don't, well, at least there will be less traffic and still a good skyline and one of the best urban communities in Texas.

***On second thought, of course NYC and Chicago are less concerned with smaller projects, they have millions and millions of people.

For its population, Austin is hands down the most active as far as high rise construction right now, right?

It's the SkyscraperPage website, not the real estate website. Are the re-developments you're so proud of on South Lamar skyscrapers? I don't think so, and that might be why New Yorkers and posters from other large cities don't bring two and three story projects up.

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by electricron

It's the SkyscraperPage website, not the real estate website. Are the re-developments you're so proud of on South Lamar skyscrapers? I don't think so, and that might be why New Yorkers and posters from other large cities don't bring two and three story projects up.

It seems like you took his post out of context. You are one of the reasons this thread has become a nightmare at times.

[jtown,man]

Thanks Hill Country

Originally Posted by electricron

It's the SkyscraperPage website, not the real estate website. Are the re-developments you're so proud of on South Lamar skyscrapers? I don't think so, and that might be why New Yorkers and posters from other large cities don't bring two and three story projects up.

This is SSP, however, do we only talk about skyscrapers? Check out the city discussion section, it is almost non-stop talk about urbanity, not skyscrapers.

They don't bring up those projects because it would be insanely burdensome and really boring to them to keep track of all their small and mid sized projects. A city like Austin is able to keep up with its projects, even if we are getting a lot lately, easily since we still have a relatively small amount compared to very large cities. Which I prefer. It adds more value to everything that is added, from a 35 story highrise to a 5 story apartment building, yes, on Lamar.

[cvalkan]

Not to mention that this particular thread is about transportation, so the site is manifestly not only about skyscrapers.