New Downtown Calgary Arena

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by wave46

They've tried this before. The multipurpose stadium era of baseball and football. On paper, the compromises don't look so bad, but in actuality, it just doesn't work - the US is littered with abandoned stadiums that used to host both baseball and football.

In Canada, this is personified by the Olympic Stadium in Montreal. It was designed for the Olympics and converted for baseball/football use and now sits empty because no professional sport wants to use it. I will concede there were other forces at play in Montreal, but the stadium didn't exactly give the ambiance of 'going to the game'. More like going to an empty concrete cavern.

I don't understand the comparison between football/rodeo/chucks and football/baseball. These are completely different combinations.

There is a similar area between the infield and a football field. Designed properly, you would still be able to view the chuckwagons going around the corners although the east straightaway would be blocked (it already is for the most part). The end zones would be the biggest challenge, but I'm sure there is a solution to be found between removable seating and a ground-level concourse.

I think it could work. I mostly like the idea of having facilities that don't sit around being wasted for the majority of the time they are depreciating in value. I also like the location and incredible amount of available space.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Does the grandstand need to be replaced? seems to be more than sufficient for the 11 days of the year it gets used.

It will need to be eventually, built in 1974. But you could leave it be for a long while. Ottawa's multiuse grandstand (It has a hockey arena!) is from the 60s.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

It will need to be eventually, built in 1974. But you could leave it be for a long while. Ottawa's multiuse grandstand (It has a hockey arena!) is from the 60s.

If it's structurally sound, then it should be fine for it's purpose. Only reason I can see them upgrading it at all in the short term is if we get an Indy race like I alluded to before. Not sure there's anything happening with that anymore though.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Forgive the awfulness of this mashup:


Now, you'd need a way to move the field, but that is totally possible. And you'd probably cut down the capacity on the east grandstand, to allow some sightlines to the backstretch, or a really neat huge ribbon LED

Have the east side be a giant elevator which sinks into the ground for the Stampede.

(I'm only kidding. I think.)

[MalcolmTucker]

If you chop off the seats beyond the touchdown lines, can you bring the stands closer?

[McMurph]

I love it. The track is only used for the 10 days of the rangeland derby, right? Sightlines on the backstretch are already irrelevant and with the video board that any new stadium / grandstand puts in everyone will be watching that. You could even put a flat promenade like roof on the shorter east stands and make that the prime rodeo and chuck watching spot. If you were really slick with the removable stands at the N and S you might even be able to slide them in and out between the afternoon rodeo and evening chucks.

Not quite sure how you combine the East stands concourse facilities with the stock-handling infrastructure. Also not sure how you avoid stampeditechture.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

If you chop off the seats beyond the touchdown lines, can you bring the stands closer?

I'm guessing not. The sidelines are pretty packed with the teams, their equipment, and space for a camera cart. I assume that the end zone stands curve into the sidelines because the sidelines don't need to be as thick there, rather than any other reason.

[craner]

At first I didn't think the combined Football/Rodeo/Racetrack idea was realistically feasible, but the more brainstorming that goes on here the more I'm convinced it could work.

Highlights:
- existing Stampede grandstand could remain for the time being to bring down current costs.
- +15/+30 connections between the east & west stands at both north & south ends. These could be tied into existing concourse levels on the existing grandstand.
- Removable seating or party decks at north & south ends for football games.
- Sink the football field down below track/infield level enough to add temporary dirt to level for the Stampede. i.e. Don't try to put the football field over the track/infield.
- Video ribbon board on new east stand to compensate for blocked view of the backstretch from the west grandstand. As someone mentioned, the backstretch is largely blocked for most of the grandstand seats as it sits now anyway.
- Similar sightlines required for all uses.
- Puts the arena & stadium in same area to take advantage of planned entertainment district.
- Central location.
- Potential outdoor concert venue.
- Allows new fieldhouse and new, more suitable track & football facility to be built for UC at Foothills location.
- Allows excess McMahon lands to be sold & repurposed.

I'm sure I'm forgetting other good reasons this idea makes sense but I'm actually excited about this now.
BTW - according to Wikipedia, the Stampede Grandstand seats 17,000.
How do we propose this to the City/Stampede/CESC ??

[CalgaryAlex]

Nice highlight list, craner. Yeah the more I think about this, the more I want to see it happen. I'd love for the Stamps to play in a central location instead of in the suburbs. And I'd love to see our facilities used to their greatest potential.

This would add to the supposed transformation the Stampede board wants to see happen to their grounds. I'm sure businesses on 17 Ave, 4 St and in East Village would also like to see an additional 10 events with 30,000 attendees placed on their doorstep (many during a time that the Flames aren't playing).

Originally Posted by craner

How do we propose this to the City/Stampede/CESC ??

And... the CMLC who are currently drawing up plans to revitalize the Stampede grounds.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by craner

At first I didn't think the combined Football/Rodeo/Racetrack idea was realistically feasible, but the more brainstorming that goes on here the more I'm convinced it could work.

Highlights:
- existing Stampede grandstand could remain for the time being to bring down current costs.
- +15/+30 connections between the east & west stands at both north & south ends. These could be tied into existing concourse levels on the existing grandstand.
- Removable seating or party decks at north & south ends for football games.
- Sink the football field down below track/infield level enough to add temporary dirt to level for the Stampede. i.e. Don't try to put the football field over the track/infield.
- Video ribbon board on new east stand to compensate for blocked view of the backstretch from the west grandstand. As someone mentioned, the backstretch is largely blocked for most of the grandstand seats as it sits now anyway.
- Similar sightlines required for all uses.
- Puts the arena & stadium in same area to take advantage of planned entertainment district.
- Central location.
- Potential outdoor concert venue.
- Allows new fieldhouse and new, more suitable track & football facility to be built for UC at Foothills location.
- Allows excess McMahon lands to be sold & repurposed.

I'm sure I'm forgetting other good reasons this idea makes sense but I'm actually excited about this now.
BTW - according to Wikipedia, the Stampede Grandstand seats 17,000.
How do we propose this to the City/Stampede/CESC ??

It's an idea worth exploring.

Wouldn't having stands on the east side block the view of the backstretch for everyone? Thus, making at least 50% of the race unwatchable?

Also, I have no clue what a rodeo/chuckwagon event entails. But I'd imagine there is a requirement to have a large "back of house" operation...I don't know if that could be integrated into a stadium.

[MalcolmTucker]

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Forgive the awfulness of this mashup:


Now, you'd need a way to move the field, but that is totally possible. And you'd probably cut down the capacity on the east grandstand, to allow some sightlines to the backstretch, or a really neat huge ribbon LED

But .
But ...
BUT ...

What about the nightly Grandstand show?
where will the stage be for all those singing and dancing kids to entertain the crowds after the chucks every night?


please -- Think Of The Children

[craner]

Don't they pull the stage in every night with a big tractor ?

[upperloge]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

I don't understand the comparison between football/rodeo/chucks and football/baseball. These are completely different combinations.

I think it could work. I mostly like the idea of having facilities that don't sit around being wasted for the majority of the time they are depreciating in value. I also like the location and incredible amount of available space.

Forgive my completely amateur attempt with an online autocad (my first time ever using one), i'm sure someone with much better skills than I could mock something up and even sort out a spectator roof over the West side grandstand.

I'd put the bulk of the 'fan' seating on the West side and keep the East for more box/club seating as it would minimize the number of people that would have to go 'over the bridge' so to speak and keep the overall height of the East side down. Having a larger grandstand on one side is not a foreign concept when you look at places like TD Place or 'old Mosaic'. One could depending on budget also look at another bridge on the south side as well, but wanted to leave an endzone more 'open' for the Grandstand stage to get wheeled it (would run it as more of an 'in the round' experience. If you really want to get fancy, a party deck or 'band stage' could be set up in the SE corner to facilitate half-time shows or hot tub/lazboy recliner promotional seating. Or a rum hut.

Not sure if you can see it, but I was thinking of a ribbon strip straight across the top of the East side stand. Get some video geeks to do some work and sort out a multi-camera array that gives a real-time look at the track that's blocked by the grandstand so you can see which wagon is leading the way.






Yes, the chuckwagon track is decidedly not to scale. Couldn't sort out how to make it 'huge', but really it's just there to illustrate how things run.

For rodeo purposes, may need to have a 'tunnel' coming right out at centrefield on the East side grandstand. Unless you could use the one I sorted in the SE fieldlevel corner.

As for the field, most likely a Fieldturf surface that you can drop an event deck on top of and layer with a good pack of dirt for Stampede week. If they can rebuild the track after the flood in a couple days, pretty sure they can drop in and remove some dirt with a few days on either side of the GOSOE.


Really, with a good field turf surface, you could run CFL, NASL, USport football on here, you'd just lose that 2 week window in July. Don't have to get too crazy with special conference rooms and such like the new mosaic has, or even team/practise facilities. I'd say rip down McMahon and keep the Stamps and Dinos practise facilities there, but put up a modest 5,000 seat grandstand to accommodate the UofC's needs.

As for the endzones on gameday, you could stage those pretty easily like the RedBlacks do in Ottawa for some more standing room only/party seating options.



Anyway. That's the brainstorm. Sleep beckons.

[RyLucky]

^ Cool idea! Can you only watch the end of the race though?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

^ Cool idea! Can you only watch the end of the race though?

Well, in my mind, think of it as a way to conceptualize different use zones more than scale, showing people that lack an imagination how things fit together, not relative sizes, not sightlines to the backstretch, homestretch and start, or how high from the ground the concourse would be.

[upperloge]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

^ Cool idea! Can you only watch the end of the race though?

Haha. That's why it's a rough mock-up.

Might make more sense for the jumbotron and bridge to be on the south endzone. That way you see the race start and still have that nice open look to the north to see the final homestretch from the West grandstand.

Might be some benefit to the screen facing north rather than south for direct sunlight reasons as well.

[upperloge]

RyLucky had a good point about being able to see the homestretch of the Rangeland. Did a couple tweaks and moved the bridge/jumbotron to the south side. Opens up sightlines for the final leg to the finish.






I'd say some portable party patio in the north endzone on gameday. And really, the East side grandstand could be very much like the TD Place 'new' grandstand. Lots of boxes and such but overall less height and the smaller of the two. Give it a tunnel coming out at mid-field if rodeo needs something like that, or for a big team gallop onto the field. Hmm. Crap. Haven't considered a runway for Quick Six. That would need to be a consideration somehow.



TD Place has some interesting stairs on the end of their grandstand that might work better than the world's largest ramp I mocked up into this.



Again, not a pro. Anybody have some better tools than TinkerBox, by all means give it a shot!

[outoftheice]

Some interesting tweets from Rogers Place in Edmonton last night complaining about the length of the lines for the bathroom. https://twitter.com/OilersNation/sta...81693717618688

After attending a concert at Rogers Place that had me waiting 15 minutes in line to get through security at the main entrance and ten minutes in line to access the second bowl (one of the two escalators was broken and they wouldn't let people use it as stairs) this doesn't surprise me one bit.

Thing is the NHL and the Flames keep pointing Rogers Place as the shining example of everything Calgary hopes to gain compared to our tired old Saddledome. All I saw was a shiny new arena with a large number of private boxes suffering from the exact same problems fans complain about at the Saddledome except the Saddledome offered far better concession options. If this is what progress looks like at the cost of hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars the Flames can forget it.

[technomad]

Lots of good ideas with the grandstand stadium! While I'm still partial to having a stadium that can be used year round, leveraging the grandstand would probably cost far less than half of a BC place equivalent..