Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

I was actually referring to downgrading of freeflow to traffic lights, not cloverleaf.

Plenti for cities have freeflow in 'residential' areas without plunking traffic lights within the interchange.

You really have to look at the intent of each roadway. Both McPhillips and Main within the Perimeter will never be free flowing, they'll be littered with lights to serve residential and commercial areas. Not a bad thing, just have to keep in mind their purpose.

PTH 9 north of the city is a highway meant to serve the low density residential in the area that happens to have Selkirk at the other end. So instead of being either an effective collector highway for the low density residential or a bigger expressway for Selkirk, it's a jumble of the two and doesn't do either job effectively. Probably a lost cause for any effective upgrade to free flow, just localized upgrades with lights and 4 laning where possible. Regardless, no need to fret about adding two lights.

PTH 8 is a bit more surprising as it is an alternate, more open expressway to Selkirk, and later Gimli and cottage country. But as Dengler said, if there's no intent to upgrade PTH 8 in one or two lifetimes of the bridge structures, and you'll hit a light the moment you enter the perimeter, I see no issue with a downgrade.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

As for Main Street, it’s not even divided outside of Winnipeg, so there’s no point making it free flowing.

A full cloverleaf wouldn't make sense at Main St. Not only is it not divided, but it traverses suburban areas and active transportation is needed too, not just roads. Hwy 8 in Manitoba goes through suburbs too, but it is unlikely tht would become a freeway.
Hwy 7 could use a system interchange like 59 and 101 as it is meant to support Centreport Canada, Airport, and other industries.
Hwy 6, I would perfer a system interchange, but I'm not sure how much the mining industry in Northern Manitoba is, so a service interchange may have to do as the traffic volumes aren't as high. I would also want a system interchange because I'm assuming Hwy 6 would be extended till, 190? Therefore, it could work as another link to Centreport Canada and other industries. It could help as a trade route for northern Manitoba.

[bomberjet]

My comments on the North Perimeter study. In general I dislike overarching tone of realignment of the minor roads.

Road 63N (Selkirk) and PR 221 (Rosser Rd): Option 2 I guess, Selkirk Ave Parclo. Dislike decommissioning of the Rosser Rd interchange.
PTH 6 and Sturgeon Road: Option 3 with Parclos. Not really a fan of the horseshoe folded diamonds. But the only propose there is the option to minimize structures. Would prefer a separate PTH 6 interchange on/near existing alignment.
PTH 7: Upgraded ramps look good.
Pipeline: Diamond looks good.
McPhillips: Dislike downgrading the interchanges. Leave as full cloverleafs. (McPhillips was originally planned as the twinned highway instead of Main St. McPhillips is twinned to St. Andrew's airport, where it was supposed to extend straight northward and connect to PTH 9 at Selkirk. Then continue on to the PTH 4 bridge and ultimately connect with PTH 59.)
Rail overpasses for the 2 CP tracks could be combined into one if they close the main st crossing and direct the rail traffic to the crossing near PTH 7.
Main/Henderson: If the rail overpass was eliminated, they could maintain the current configuration of the Main St cloverleaf. That bridge needs to be reconstructed though due to the low clearance. Otherwise I like option 2 but with the full cloverleaf again... Smash Option 1 and 2 together.
Wenzel: Option 2 with the parclo.
Gunn: Option 2 with the parclo.
Dugald: Option 2 with parclo and rail overpass. Maintains existing alignment of Dugald.

[Carboy15]

The design changes I like:
Selkirk Ave & Rosser Road: Option 3
PTH 6 and Sturgeon Road:This is a silly one, but Option 1.
Brookside Blvd: Cloverstack is good
Pipeline Road: I agree with a diamond
McPhillips: Option 2
Main and Henderson: Option 2
Wenzel Road: Option 1
Gunn Road: Parclo
Dugald Road: Option 2

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

My comments on the North Perimeter study. In general I dislike overarching tone of realignment of the minor roads.

Road 63N (Selkirk) and PR 221 (Rosser Rd): Option 2 I guess, Selkirk Ave Parclo. Dislike decommissioning of the Rosser Rd interchange.
PTH 6 and Sturgeon Road: Option 3 with Parclos. Not really a fan of the horseshoe folded diamonds. But the only propose there is the option to minimize structures. Would prefer a separate PTH 6 interchange on/near existing alignment.
PTH 7: Upgraded ramps look good.
Pipeline: Diamond looks good.
McPhillips: Dislike downgrading the interchanges. Leave as full cloverleafs. (McPhillips was originally planned as the twinned highway instead of Main St. McPhillips is twinned to St. Andrew's airport, where it was supposed to extend straight northward and connect to PTH 9 at Selkirk. Then continue on to the PTH 4 bridge and ultimately connect with PTH 59.)
Rail overpasses for the 2 CP tracks could be combined into one if they close the main st crossing and direct the rail traffic to the crossing near PTH 7.
Main/Henderson: If the rail overpass was eliminated, they could maintain the current configuration of the Main St cloverleaf. That bridge needs to be reconstructed though due to the low clearance. Otherwise I like option 2 but with the full cloverleaf again... Smash Option 1 and 2 together.
Wenzel: Option 2 with the parclo.
Gunn: Option 2 with the parclo.
Dugald: Option 2 with parclo and rail overpass. Maintains existing alignment of Dugald.

I agree. I picked if I had to pick off the list, but Hwy 8 could stay as a cloverleaf for years. The good thing is that there haven't been any accidents accosiated with weaving yet, but when that becomes a problem, I would rather pick a cloverstack almost like Brookside Blvd. However Main should be a parclo as it should accomidate active transport too while a cloverleaf doesn't do that.

[Luisito]

Has work on the st marys interchange been halted for some reason? The last few times I was down in that area I didn't see anyone working and the work that has been done on there hasn't really seemed to advance since a few months ago.

[Biff]

I am not 100% on this, but I believe all that is left is road paving and that was likely halted due to the onset of winter.

[bomberjet]

Paving in spring. New interchange will open and they'll spend the rest of the summer removing old roads, cleaning up and landscaping.

[Wpgstvsouth94]

Took a drive down creek bend road. Construction seems to be ramping up on the creek end road bridge over the seine.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Wpgstvsouth94

Took a drive down creek bend road. Construction seems to be ramping up on the creek end road bridge over the seine.

large multifamily building scheduled to be built there, starting summer 2024 i believe

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

The fact that they are downgrading Main St. and McPhillips Street from free-flowing to stop lights is a giant PMRTFO. Would any other major Canadian city downgrade interchanges?

Bloody sad.

Better not look at what they plan to do to Portage at the Perimeter.

[Dengler Avenue]

To be fair, Ontario did that with 401 and Highbury Avenue leading into London, which is otherwise a divided freeway too. (And I don’t agree with that one either.) Flyover ramps, if ever warranted, can always be future-proofed.
As for Portage Avenue, it doesn’t need that kind of flyover ramps unless M.T.I. decides to scratch Headingley Bypass and plow the divided freeway through Headingley instead.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Better not look at what they plan to do to Portage at the Perimeter.

Portage and Pembina are slated for similar "downgrading" to remove weaving ramps at the cloverleaf interchanges. The Headingley Bypass, once built, will handle cross country traffic, including any semi-trailers that aren't stopping for gas and whatnot off Portage in Headingley.

The South Perimeter study looked at traffic volumes 30+ years. The plan at Portage is a switch to a SPUI, so I assume the traffic volumes in the future will warrant that level of service, otherwise it would have been another design. I'm not sure what is so upsetting to you about the proposed plan.

The engineers behind that study could have proposed more costly, larger, pie-in-the-sky designs that could handle more traffic and would have required expropriation of nearby houses and businesses. They could have suggested a 4 stack texas interchange, but the SPUI was what works best for the site.

[bomberjet]

I was by the St. Mary's interchange site last week. There's still a crap load of work to be done. Sounded like it was much further along.

The bridge doesn't even have a deck yet. Not sure how they plan on making June in service date. The roads need a ton of work. The asphalt EB lanes are suspect. But based on the large width of paving they did with the asphalt it is permanent and not going to be concrete.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by WildCake

The engineers behind that study could have proposed more costly, larger, pie-in-the-sky designs that could handle more traffic and would have required expropriation of nearby houses and businesses. They could have suggested a 4 stack texas interchange, but the SPUI was what works best for the site.

This isn't actually a SPUI, but a diverging diamond

[bodaggin]

North Perimeter Proposals released yesterday. What an utter disaster.

Among the dumbest things they proposed, deleting, yes DELETING the McPhillips Cloverleaf. For a diverging diamond, or regular diamond interchange. Yes adding 2 lights to a perfectly functioning free-flowing cloverleaf. Proposing similar at Main St. Ludicrous. Pic here:




Then Hwy 6. They're drunk again. They don't even propose a simple half cloverleaf. They propose monstrosities like this, including an overpass at Sturgeon! A barely used road, which will have overpasses on both sides within 2 miles (Hwy 6 + Existing Hwy 7).

And to boot, a 6 lane bridge over a recreational local rail line, Prairie Dog Central. Just relocate PDC North of Perimeter and close off the line. Save a 6-lane bridge. Their proposal here:



My Proposal for Hwy 6 here:



Manitoba's traffic engineers need to be fired and clean slated. Get loud, please.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

North Perimeter Proposals released yesterday. What an utter disaster.

Manitoba's traffic engineers need to be fired and clean slated. Get loud, please.

If you're that angry about the designs at least call out the right people, which is WSP. Provincial engineers did not come up with these designs.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by WildCake

If you're that angry about the designs at least call out the right people, which is WSP. Provincial engineers did not come up with these designs.

Wow, thx for speeding me up. Are they on retainer? Why are they doing so much (terrible) work? Corruption?

They came up with this Carberry nonsense too. WSP must go.

[Dengler Avenue]

Does anyone care to start a petition?
I’m only cautiously optimistic about the traction that it’ll garner though (unless someone knows how to frame the message).

[bomberjet]

MTI is 100% approving everything they show in those drawings. WSP is just doing the leg work. Nothing comes to public light without MTI approving every spec of what's being shown. Note the public feedback part just came out. Those designs came out a while back.

Regardless, I gave them shit for the mess at #6 and McPhillips too! The eastern part is fine. It's diamonds or parclos. Main/Henderson is okay.

The western part with all the offline construction, where they detour the roads off existing alignment, are dumb. They need to rethink that whole west/northwest side.