New Downtown Calgary Arena

[MalcolmTucker]

Forgive the awfulness of this mashup:


Now, you'd need a way to move the field, but that is totally possible. And you'd probably cut down the capacity on the east grandstand, to allow some sightlines to the backstretch, or a really neat huge ribbon LED

[craner]

^Thanks for your "Awful Mashup" MT.
It's nice to see the scale of how everything might fit together.
As for lowering the east grandstand to permit views of the backstretch, perhaps they could make the top profile saddle shaped - I bet Calgarian would love that.

[Design-mind]

The Stampeders horse, "Quick Six" can now run down the sidelines and keep going doing a full loop!

[speedog]

C'mon people, a combination football stadium/chuckwagon track? Might as well throw in a baseball layout and maybe some cricket pitches as well. Oh, and a whitewater racing course too.

[upperloge]

Originally Posted by speedog

C'mon people, a combination football stadium/chuckwagon track? Might as well throw in a baseball layout and maybe some cricket pitches as well. Oh, and a whitewater racing course too.

Why not? More use out of the facility, if you're building on the Stampede Grounds you'd need to build at-grade for the most part anyway as you wouldn't be digging out a bowl for the playing surface at that location. All you'd need are open endzones (can put up some temp areas for gameday activations) but you're looking at events (CFL games/Stampede) that require similar venue capacity as it is. And lets face it, the Stampede Grandstand is pretty basic yes, but it's not getting any younger.

Size wise it works. Sorting out how to handle the construction without impacting a Stampede window would be interesting.

I'd personally make it a full loop for the stadium at a +15 level (c'mon, how Calgary is THAT!) much like the bridge at Gilette Stadium (simply with one on the other endzone as well) You could even make the bridges SRO party decks and have 2 sizeable jumbotrons placed in those spaces that can show the Chucks when they're behind the East grandstand, or, hell, do a fancy video ribbon on the East grandstand that runs a camera array and basically shows you the track behind the grandstand as the wagons move from right to left before coming back into view.

Is it a bit unusual? Admittedly so. But you get the parking/transit links of the Stampede Grounds, a central location, more usable dates for an Outdoor stadium, hell, give it an arched canopy roof like a chuckwagon if you want to keep the fancy western theme going, although I think the city may have moved beyond that architecturally these days.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by speedog

C'mon people, a combination football stadium/chuckwagon track? Might as well throw in a baseball layout and maybe some cricket pitches as well. Oh, and a whitewater racing course too.

Pretty much this. It would be creating a venue that could host a dozen types of events and suck for every one of them.

[MalcolmTucker]

But what would make it suck? What makes it incompatible? In multiuse football/baseball it is sightlines, not orienting seats in the right direction, and leaving too much playing surface. In track stadiums it is being set back too far. What creates the problem here besides multiuse = bad? There would be compromises in the end zone concourses sure, and but any potential seating there wouldn't be missed.

[esquire]

^ Because building a venue with a temporary football field that sits on a rodeo/chuckwagon racing track is absurd. The east grandstand would be useless except for football games, so you're basically building half a stadium for football anyway, why not just build one more stand and create a proper football/soccer venue.

The views of the track from the west stand would be ruined for the most part. The endzones would be nothing but atmosphere deadening voids. The forced groundshare scenario would probably be an unwelcome inconvenience for the Stampede, and would create headaches for the football team... this would probably not be a one-day conversion from one format to another, leading to several dark days for the facility during prime event season in the summer.

Honestly, this sounds like something that would have come out of the darkest days of Winnipeg small time, penny pinching thinking circa 1995. It's hard to believe anyone would seriously propose such a thing today, let alone in Calgary of all places.

[CalgaryAlex]

I'm hopping on the chuckwagon for this stadium/grandstand combo. Never thought of it before, but it makes complete sense. Take two venues that need to be replaced, that don't hold nearly enough events on their own, and integrate the two. An improved facility may also be good for outdoor concert events without the noise problem McMahon currently has. Tons of room for parking/tailgating, and the CMLC/Stampede redevelopment can feed into this as the southern anchor of the grounds (the arena being the northern anchor). The 17th Ave redesign can feed onto Olympic Way directly into the middle of the two anchors.

I like it!

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Because building a venue with a temporary football field that sits on a rodeo/chuckwagon racing track is absurd. The east grandstand would be useless except for football games, so you're basically building half a stadium for football anyway, why not just build one more stand and create a proper football/soccer venue.

The views of the track from the west stand would be ruined for the most part. The endzones would be nothing but atmosphere deadening voids. The forced groundshare scenario would probably be an unwelcome inconvenience for the Stampede, and would create headaches for the football team... this would probably not be a one-day conversion from one format to another, leading to several dark days for the facility during prime event season in the summer.

Honestly, this sounds like something that would have come out of the darkest days of Winnipeg small time, penny pinching thinking circa 1995. It's hard to believe anyone would seriously propose such a thing today, let alone in Calgary of all places.

Why is it absurd? Seems like a relatively simple engineering problem to solve. And why would the east grandstand be useless for anything other that football? Maybe you can explain this a bit more.

During prime event season both of the current facilities sit empty, basking in the sun. I don't see a problem with having two main conversion times (before and after stampede) as well as a couple other conversions (monster trucks, etc.). Again, this is a rather simple engineering problem.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Why is it absurd? Seems like a relatively simple engineering problem to solve. And why would the east grandstand be useless for anything other that football? Maybe you can explain this a bit more.

During prime event season both of the current facilities sit empty, basking in the sun. I don't see a problem with having two main conversion times (before and after stampede) as well as a couple other conversions (monster trucks, etc.). Again, this is a rather simple engineering problem.

They've tried this before. The multipurpose stadium era of baseball and football. On paper, the compromises don't look so bad, but in actuality, it just doesn't work - the US is littered with abandoned stadiums that used to host both baseball and football.

In Canada, this is personified by the Olympic Stadium in Montreal. It was designed for the Olympics and converted for baseball/football use and now sits empty because no professional sport wants to use it. I will concede there were other forces at play in Montreal, but the stadium didn't exactly give the ambiance of 'going to the game'. More like going to an empty concrete cavern.

[MalcolmTucker]

Moving a field isn't an engineering problem that hasn't been solved, just right size it for a non-turf field. Might want to keep the movable modules tall to leave height for under stand access during rodeo as the East stand would need to accommodate rodeo just as the infield does today.

You can either plan for keeping the Grandstand until its end of life, or replacing it earlier.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by wave46

They've tried this before. The multipurpose stadium era of baseball and football. On paper, the compromises don't look so bad, but in actuality, it just doesn't work - the US is littered with abandoned stadiums that used to host both baseball and football.

In Canada, this is personified by the Olympic Stadium in Montreal. It was designed for the Olympics and converted for baseball/football use and now sits empty because no professional sport wants to use it. I will concede there were other forces at play in Montreal, but the stadium didn't exactly give the ambiance of 'going to the game'. More like going to an empty concrete cavern.

But the sightlines don't change - centre field/infield. The multi stadiums suck for baseball because the seats are facing the middle of centre field instead of the pitchers mound. They suck for football because the slope of the seats for baseball doesn't feel right for football.

They don't suck merely for the fact that they aren't ever used for anything else.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

Why is it absurd? Seems like a relatively simple engineering problem to solve. And why would the east grandstand be useless for anything other that football? Maybe you can explain this a bit more.

During prime event season both of the current facilities sit empty, basking in the sun. I don't see a problem with having two main conversion times (before and after stampede) as well as a couple other conversions (monster trucks, etc.). Again, this is a rather simple engineering problem.

The east stand would be useless for chuckwagon racing. It's unlikely that the extra seats would be needed for other rodeo events. So really, you'd be building half a football stadium.

The whole idea strikes me as half baked to the max, but who knows... maybe the powers that be will like the idea of saving a few bucks by building a weird frankenstadium. I'm just glad it's you guys and not us who could be "saddled" with such a thing.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

But the sightlines don't change - centre field/infield. The multi stadiums suck for baseball because the seats are facing the middle of centre field instead of the pitchers mound. They suck for football because the slope of the seats for baseball doesn't feel right for football.

They don't suck merely for the fact that they aren't ever used for anything else.

It looks (to my non-engineering eye, albeit) that there is a fairly large difference in scale between the football and chuckwagon set up. Like my example of baseball/football, the compromises required to accommodate both will end up making neither really work.

Also, is there enough demand for both to really make a pairing work? It might be cheaper/better to just make a sport specific stadium.

[MalcolmTucker]

Probably if the grandstand ever needs to be replaced, there will be a reckoning. It was paid for back when horse racing was the only gambling in the province.

[MalcolmTucker]

Sightlines are not designed with much focus right now:



Would you even but in seats beyond the end touchdown lines these days?:


Granted, the set back for rodeo would be more than today, but you would also be increasing capacity by a lot! You might not use a fair portion, or you sell them for low enough that people that can't afford to take their family out can go.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by speedog

C'mon people, a combination football stadium/chuckwagon track? Might as well throw in a baseball layout and maybe some cricket pitches as well. Oh, and a whitewater racing course too.

Agreed, combining all these does seem a bit ridiculous. Having the ends of a stadium open to allow a horse track will impact the seating arrangement and would likely require some pretty heavy duty machinery to operate. Also, not sure if moving the field into the Stampede infield will be the best bet during Stampede, the infield is usually pretty busy.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

I'm hopping on the chuckwagon for this stadium/grandstand combo. Never thought of it before, but it makes complete sense. Take two venues that need to be replaced, that don't hold nearly enough events on their own, and integrate the two. An improved facility may also be good for outdoor concert events without the noise problem McMahon currently has. Tons of room for parking/tailgating, and the CMLC/Stampede redevelopment can feed into this as the southern anchor of the grounds (the arena being the northern anchor). The 17th Ave redesign can feed onto Olympic Way directly into the middle of the two anchors.

I like it!

Does the grandstand need to be replaced? seems to be more than sufficient for the 11 days of the year it gets used.

[googspecial]

Cleaned it up a little. Build it as close to the Agrium as possible/furthest away from the river.

- Red box dressing rooms etc
- Green boxes would be retractable/removable seats. Could leave the North side ones up for football games, and South side for Grey Cup
- +15 (would probably need to be +30 or more) where the Rogers canopy thing is. This could be access to the North endzone seating and the East stand if built wide enough. Finish line for racing...