Canadian Retail Thread

[LFRENCH]

Originally Posted by esquire

Interesting point. I have heard more than one person express a certain schadenfraeuede over Target's challenges in Canada... always comes out something like "Well, if they don't carry the Archer Farms Breakfast Sausages I like to buy at the stores in Minneapolis, then they can just go to hell"

I've never heard anyone air similar gripes about Walmart.

I use to live in the US, in the summer I took the girlfriend down to meet the family. We went into three target stores in two in San Jose and a city format store at the Matreon in SF, and guess what.... it was the exact same experience as I get here in NW Calgary( for the most part, Target City was different).

As for the prices, they were very similar( not these huge discounts that everyone insists that happens in the US). However as you can imagine it had many different products( companies that don't exist up here), which could perhaps be seen by the public as the "same" and there for cheaper product subsitution ?

What I appreciated was Target was introducing many unique products that do not and will never exist at wal mart, loblaws and others. An quick few examples of this off the top of my head were an ableskewer pan that was manufactured in the US, Their beaver canoe clothing, and white chocolate peppermint M&M's.

So while Canadians will complain about prices, they vastly overlook how target was offering competition in product selection which will NOT be replicated by Wal Mart. For this I feel we have honestly lost something that we won't easily get back.

Another point being that if it wasn't for target coming up here, would we have seen our existing retailers even try to step up their game?

[Policy Wonk]

I suspect locations in rural Michigan and suburban Seattle might be slightly more affordable than San Francisco and Silicon Valley at the moment.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I hope you're pulling our collective legs. If she's actually upset over something as inconsequential as a chain of stores pulling out she's truly one sad individual. She's lost the plot completely.

I'm not joking, that's what really happened this morning.

***********

The mall discussion is an interesting one. In London, Target is one of two anchors at the long-struggling Westmount Shopping Centre, with the other anchor being Sears. With the current fortunes of Sears, this mall is going to be in serious trouble and will likely need to "transform" again. That part of London doesn't have a Walmart, but I can't see Walmart wanting to be on that property when they seem to prefer their new stores to be in big box deserts and not established neighbourhoods.

Masonville Place will be fine, it might even be an opportunity to add more parking. They are already trying to fill the former Sears space, so I doubt they're going to want to try and fill a second large empty space.

Kingston's Cataraqui Centre, which has continued to be successful and was doing fine during the period after Zellers closed before Target opened, will likely need to attract someone else for long term viability, as they also depend on Sears as an anchor - but they also have Hudson's Bay.

I remember the demise of Eaton's like it was yesterday. As I recall those stores closed and then re-opened to liquidate their stock.

[esquire]

Guess I'll have to stock up on these little nuggets of heaven down in North Dakota from now on...

[OTSkyline]

Maybe Giant Tiger can pick up a few locations... They have been completely redevelopping their stores to a new concept experience and I have been really impressed (at least with the ones we have in the Ottawa region). Good canadian owned and operated company, good products, good fashion, great prices and alot cleaner and more enjoyable than shopping at Wal-Mart.
Also seems like they have been expanding and opening larger format stores lately...

[eternallyme]

http://www.retail-insider.com/retail...et-predictable

Great analysis. NO surprise from anyone.

This will forever be a major case study for Business and Economics courses. One of the worst retail moves ever.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Maybe Giant Tiger can pick up a few locations... They have been completely redevelopping their stores to a new concept experience and I have been really impressed (at least with the ones we have in the Ottawa region). Good canadian owned and operated company, good products, good fashion, great prices and alot cleaner and more enjoyable than shopping at Wal-Mart.
Also seems like they have been expanding and opening larger format stores lately...

I don't know if GT is any different in Ontario, but the stores around here are very downmarket... they remind me of the BiWay stores from the 80s. If Target is a notch above Wal-Mart, then GT is definitely a notch below it.

But with all the talk of the stratification of the Canadian retail market, I guess it would make sense.

[SignalHillHiker]

The most common reason residents of St. John's and Corner Brook are giving the media for being sad Target is closing is that was a quiet relaxing place to shop because it was never busy

[Gerrard]

The Canadian market can't handle competition. It's just not that big. It's too bad too. We will forever be paying higher prices for less selection and merchandise.

Because of this I'm sure many foreign retailers will think twice about entering the Canadian market. Nordstrom and Saks are probably holding their breath right now. Luxury is completely reliant on foreign consumers in Canada, unlike lower priced chains.

[GreaterMontréal]

I don't think Saks will have the same problems.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

The most common reason residents of St. John's and Corner Brook are giving the media for being sad Target is closing is that was a quiet relaxing place to shop because it was never busy

It's true. The crowds in Winnipeg were no different than at the Zellers stores, which were thin by the end of that chain's life.

I stopped into the shiny new then two-month old Super Target by Polo Park to do some Christmas shopping... I was shocked by how few people were in the store.

[eternallyme]

How did Walmart succeed big time though?

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

How did Walmart succeed big time though?

Walmart started small and built up its distribution networks from there. Target did not do that. Instead it had assumed many of the old Zeller's stores and scrambled to set up its distribution network to the size needed to satisfy all the stores. It was a gong show strategy.

[Taeolas]

By doing what Target didn't.

It was slower entering Canada, using Woolco's brand for its stores for longer while it got the supply chains sorted out. It spent its time renovating stores, often doing inside renos where it could get away with it, while figuring out how to reno the big stores.

It was also a different market here in Canada and I suspect it was less well known in general back then, so it had fewer expectations when it arrived.

Basically it eased its way in, whereas Target jumped in with both feet without testing the waters, while screaming 'Look at me!'.

Granted a lot of the above is just what I've read and heard from others. While I remember the Regent Mall Woolco and how it changed over to WalMart, I was too young to know/care much about economics and International chains. Hell, around the same time, I saw signs for a Subway store opening in Freddy and I was thinking it was an actual subway being built.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

How did Walmart succeed big time though?

Walmart started off smaller and really had no competition. Target was stupid. They came in and took over so many Zellars stores and the revamped them at a huge cost. Something that Walmart when they first came did not do. Walmart expanded slowly compared to Target. And then target builds it's super centres after they make a mess of the revamped Zellars stores. So everyone who visited the revamped ones had a sour taste allready.
What target should have done was just build a few brand new stores in set locations and draw attention to itself. Then expand.

[Gerrard]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

How did Walmart succeed big time though?

It was among the first big box chains to enter Canada. There were issues for sure with Target but it really just proves that the Canadian market sucks for competition. I really doubt it's an issue about not knowing our market or corporate arrogance. Canadians just aren't the sophisticated consumers they love to give themselves credit for being to have made the company fail like this.

It's really a wonder Canadian Tire and Shopper's hold on but the reality is, Canadians just shop with the familiar and or want cheap, cheap, cheap. Service be damned as well as a decent looking place to shop. Nordstrom is screwed.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Maybe Giant Tiger can pick up a few locations... They have been completely redevelopping their stores to a new concept experience and I have been really impressed (at least with the ones we have in the Ottawa region). Good canadian owned and operated company, good products, good fashion, great prices and alot cleaner and more enjoyable than shopping at Wal-Mart.
Also seems like they have been expanding and opening larger format stores lately...

I wondered that myself. The revamped stores are much nicer, although still pretty downmarket. I don't think, however, that any of their stores are nearly as big as the average Target.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Kingston's Cataraqui Centre, which has continued to be successful and was doing fine during the period after Zellers closed before Target opened, will likely need to attract someone else for long term viability, as they also depend on Sears as an anchor - but they also have Hudson's Bay.

The Cat Centre is actually expanding right now, which is quite surprising given Kingston. Between the new expansion and the vacancy created by the Target closure, that mall's going to have a hard time filling the space.

The transit expansion has helped that mall, as it's a lot easier for Queen's students to head over there now, but I honestly can't see that alone being enough to attract THAT many new leases...

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

How did Walmart succeed big time though?

It certainly helped that basically the entirety of the lower-middle and value oriented retailers had barely survived the recession.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Gerrard

Luxury is completely reliant on foreign consumers in Canada, unlike lower priced chains.

I don't think foreigners are flying to Calgary to shop in Nordstroms and Holts.