CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[twister244]

Originally Posted by SnowFire

Yes i know there were flights. Its a weird comparison to part in the article though.

Not sure what you are trying to argue here. AA has been rolling flights back at O'Hare over the last year or so. That has nothing to to with China, and nothing to do with Covid.

[SnowFire]

Originally Posted by twister244

Not sure what you are trying to argue here. AA has been rolling flights back at O'Hare over the last year or so. That has nothing to to with China, and nothing to do with Covid.

You can’t fly on American nonstop from Chicago to Tokyo; Tel Aviv, Israel; or Shanghai, and outside of flights to London, where it works with British Airways, the roster of European nonstops on American “metal” from Chicago now pales in comparison with flights offered by United Airlines in its home city.

Its making a comparison with united, while using a city pair that united also does not offer.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by SnowFire

Its making a comparison with united, while using a city pair that united also does not offer.

According to current schedules, United will be bringing back nonstop service from Chicago to Shanghai and Beijing on October 29th!

https://www.google.com/travel/flight...________wGYAQI

https://www.google.com/travel/flight...________wGYAQI

[twister244]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

According to current schedules, United will be bringing back nonstop service from Chicago to Shanghai and Beijing on October 29th!

https://www.google.com/travel/flight...________wGYAQI

https://www.google.com/travel/flight...________wGYAQI

I would take that with a grain of salt, unless United has created a longer route that avoids Russia air space:

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-...ssian-airspace

[twister244]

I didn't realize Peotone was still a thing:

https://abc7chicago.com/south-suburb...idot/13266311/

But.....

The legislation promises tens of thousands of jobs as it calls for the airport to be cargo only, counting on the Amazon regional distribution center and other warehouses to support the need in a region lawmakers call a transportation hub.

In that case, this would actually be a win for the metro area, right?

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by twister244

I didn't realize Peotone was still a thing:

https://abc7chicago.com/south-suburb...idot/13266311/

But.....



In that case, this would actually be a win for the metro area, right?

Not sure it's needed even for cargo ops... O'Hare and Rockford have that pretty well covered already and I don't think spending untold billions on another airport would be a great ROI. I'm of the opinion that any dime spent on Peotone is better spent at ORD/MDW/RFD.

In recent years O'Hare has been the #1 "port" in the country in terms of value of goods imported, surpassing the Port of Los Angeles. In 2022 O'Hare cargo volume was worth $330 billion. Second place was Port of Los Angeles at $312 billion. For a more local comparison the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit was 8th at $158 billion. It's basically impossible to overstate the importance of ORD to the city and region.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

Not sure it's needed even for cargo ops... O'Hare and Rockford have that pretty well covered already and I don't think spending untold billions on another airport would be a great ROI. I'm of the opinion that any dime spent on Peotone is better spent at ORD/MDW/RFD.

In recent years O'Hare has been the #1 "port" in the country in terms of value of goods imported, surpassing the Port of Los Angeles. In 2022 O'Hare cargo volume was worth $330 billion. Second place was Port of Los Angeles at $312 billion. For a more local comparison the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit was 8th at $158 billion. It's basically impossible to overstate the importance of ORD to the city and region.

The only justification for Peotone is if ORD can't handle the cargo. Given the runways and ample amount of cargo facilities, it seems they can handle expansion for the foreseeable future? In a long-distant future where we have a full TAP build out of another two large satellites (in addition to the ones about to break ground), I'm assuming even then we will be fine?

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by twister244

The only justification for Peotone is if ORD can't handle the cargo. Given the runways and ample amount of cargo facilities, it seems they can handle expansion for the foreseeable future? In a long-distant future where we have a full TAP build out of another two large satellites (in addition to the ones about to break ground), I'm assuming even then we will be fine?

Just looking at google maps you can see there is plenty of space to add cargo facilities around the airport if needed (and I don't mean in the places designated for future passenger terminals). They don't need the crazy infrastructure of passenger terminals. Airfield capacity should be plenty with the new runway configuration and the off-peak timing of cargo operations. Almost all the warehouse facilities are near O'Hare. Peotone is a cornfield.

I don't think there's ever been a business case for a Peotone airport. Just a political one.

[jpIllInoIs]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

Just looking at google maps you can see there is plenty of space to add cargo facilities around the airport if needed (and I don't mean in the places designated for future passenger terminals). They don't need the crazy infrastructure of passenger terminals. Airfield capacity should be plenty with the new runway configuration and the off-peak timing of cargo operations. Almost all the warehouse facilities are near O'Hare. Peotone is a cornfield.

I don't think there's ever been a business case for a Peotone airport. Just a political one.

Yep Its always been political. And why build new greenfield when RFD isnt near built out? And has equal or better access to the interstate system with I90, I39 and I88. Further advantage is that the warehouse ecosphere in RFD trends south to I88 Dekalb/Rochelle, whereas the spillover at PEO will benefit Indiana as warehouses migrate to I65. I39 provides the perfect Chicago bypass and I88 stabs a dagger into the center of Chicago and I90 connects RFD to ORD and the NW Chiland.

[Steely Dan]

Peotone Airport: the brain-dead corpse that refuses to die

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

In recent years O'Hare has been the #1 "port" in the country in terms of value of goods imported, surpassing the Port of Los Angeles. In 2022 O'Hare cargo volume was worth $330 billion. Second place was Port of Los Angeles at $312 billion. For a more local comparison the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit was 8th at $158 billion. It's basically impossible to overstate the importance of ORD to the city and region.

I'm not an expert so just playing devil's advocate. My understanding was that ORD's rise as a port was due to being the #1 place where iPhones enter the U.S. Obviously a palette of iPhones is incredibly value dense and measuring by value and not by weight or some similar metric might not give a real sense of the port's importance. If it was #1 for several valuable raw materials, components or perishable goods it might mean more for the local economy for reasons of co-localization.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

I'm not an expert so just playing devil's advocate. My understanding was that ORD's rise as a port was due to being the #1 place where iPhones enter the U.S. Obviously a palette of iPhones is incredibly value dense and measuring by value and not by weight or some similar metric might not give a real sense of the port's importance. If it was #1 for several valuable raw materials, components or perishable goods it might mean more for the local economy for reasons of co-localization.

Of course there is 0% chance that an airport would ever beat a seaport in terms of cargo weight. A couple shipments of gravel would beat O'Hare in that metric. But O'Hare's importance to international trade is not just iPhones, it's basically the hub for all high-end electronics and I believe pharmaceuticals as well.

I'd imagine there are also good arguments to be made in favor of being the hub for high-value trade vs the hub for low-value bulk trade. I'm not knowledgeable on the subject though.

[SIGSEGV]

I flew in from Haneda a bit ago and O'Hare was a shit show. The immigration line was awful, though I skipped it with the mobile passport control app (after being held upstairs for a while), only to wait 45 minutes for my bag in complete chaos. In the end all the bags were actually on a different carousel than advertised, and all in a pile. Renovations are probably part of this but it's definitely not a good look.

Also, in Japan every single subway train has luggage racks and it's amazing... Maybe we'll learn some day to install them on the blue line.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

I flew in from Haneda a bit ago and O'Hare was a shit show. The immigration line was awful, though I skipped it with the mobile passport control app (after being held upstairs for a while), only to wait 45 minutes for my bag in complete chaos. In the end all the bags were actually on a different carousel than advertised, and all in a pile. Renovations are probably part of this but it's definitely not a good look.

Also, in Japan every single subway train has luggage racks and it's amazing... Maybe we'll learn some day to install them on the blue line.

Yes! That’ll work! I’m agree with you that. I am sure they will install them on blue line. It will be much easier for them. They don’t have carry in their seats anymore.

[Mr Downtown]

Apparently no one else remembers that CTA did install luggage racks on Blue Line trains shortly after the O'Hare extension opened. I was apparently the only person ever to use one, so they were removed about five years later.

[Kngkyle]

As someone who has taken his luggage on the Blue Line multiple times I don't think I'd use a luggage rack if one was provided.... easier for someone to snatch it and run if I'm sitting 5-20 feet away from it instead of it being at my side.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

As someone who has taken his luggage on the Blue Line multiple times I don't think I'd use a luggage rack if one was provided.... easier for someone to snatch it and run if I'm sitting 5-20 feet away from it instead of it being at my side.

The ones in Tokyo are above all the seats. They won't hold huge bags, but they'll hold carry-on size.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Peotone Airport: the brain-dead corpse that refuses to die

Curious, why do you hate it so much?

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by sentinel

Curious, why do you hate it so much?

Not speaking for anyone but myself, but aside from being the boondoggle that it is, it's simply too far away from anywhere people want to be when they fly into Chicago. . .

. . .

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

Not speaking for anyone but myself, but aside from being the boondoggle that it is, it's simply too far away from anywhere people want to be when they fly into Chicago. . .

. . .

And the other justification for it being a cargo airport doesn't hold up (per Kngkyle). I say, if any airline (cargo or otherwise) sees a justification for that airport, present the evidence of such need. Otherwise, it's just another backyard pet project for politicians....