DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

I like how some people panic at the thought of spending money of protected bike lines (oh heavens; how will we pay for it) when in reality the expense is minimal compared to other budget items. For the equivalent price of 1 mile of highway; we could have a world class bike system that supplements other forms of transit. And what is the annual expense in keeping up a bike network? Oh.. practically zero? I understand the need of keeping budgets in line, but there are literally hundreds of line items ahead of this that would be bigger concerns.

That's great, let's just tell Denver to take all it's highway money and redirect it towards bike lanes....... oh wait. It's the same as when Kyle Zeppelin bitches about the DIA projects, the cost, and how the money should be better spent- we can't, nor should we, redirect airport revenues to affordable housing, homeless services, mulitmodal transit, etc. You open that box and Denver politician's would be raiding all sort of enterprises for pet projects.

Damn tranches of funding.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

I like how some people panic at the thought of spending money of protected bike lines (oh heavens; how will we pay for it) when in reality the expense is minimal compared to other budget items. For the equivalent price of 1 mile of highway; we could have a world class bike system that supplements other forms of transit.

Let me say upfront that I've come around to appreciating bike lanes. That said...

I'm not aware of your "price of 1 mile of highway" comparison but at least that one mile of highway accommodates the over 90% of people who drive.

With respect to costs those can vary widely. For example, Seattle promised voters a cost of $860,000 per mile for protected bike lanes...

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...gh-in-seattle/

Photo-ops might bring attention to the startling $12 million-a-mile cost to build new downtown cycling routes, a ripe target for commuters bitter about traffic and growth.

Have you allocated the cost of paving/repaving or drainage considerations for the area that bike lanes would be occupying? Will the city have to buy new snow removal equipment just for the bike lanes? How about the cost of repairing damaged bollards or other means of protection. What about the cost of cleaning spills etc?

The larger complexity is how bike lanes will interface with and fit into the overall scheme of moving people into and out of downtown or through various neighborhoods?

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Let me say upfront that I've come around to appreciating bike lanes. That said...

I'm not aware of your "price of 1 mile of highway" comparison but at least that one mile of highway accommodates the over 90% of people who drive.

Actually, about 30% of the population doesn't drive.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Let me say upfront that I've come around to appreciating bike lanes. That said...

I'm not aware of your "price of 1 mile of highway" comparison but at least that one mile of highway accommodates the over 90% of people who drive.

With respect to costs those can vary widely. For example, Seattle promised voters a cost of $860,000 per mile for protected bike lanes...

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...gh-in-seattle/

Have you allocated the cost of paving/repaving or drainage considerations for the area that bike lanes would be occupying? Will the city have to buy new snow removal equipment just for the bike lanes? How about the cost of repairing damaged bollards or other means of protection. What about the cost of cleaning spills etc?

The larger complexity is how bike lanes will interface with and fit into the overall scheme of moving people into and out of downtown or through various neighborhoods?

I'm basing my estimate on the fact that highways typically cost $8M to $10M per mile, depending on whether they're 4 or 6 lane.

Seattle's bike lane boondoggle is unique to them because installing raised walkways, with a lot of form work, drainage, and new lights with signal rewiring installed is expensive. In fact, we don't even need raised lanes that require extensive work; why not just protect the edge of the road with plastic parking stops (similar to what's in place outside of Union Station). I think they're about $50 apiece. I bet we could get a gofundme page and raise the necessary funds in a weekend or two. Road signs wouldn't even need to be updated (since what bikers use them anyway). Comparatively, most cities install bike lines for about $150K per mile, but we just need several more installed on non commuter lanes and we'd be fine. Bikers shouldn't be anywhere near high volume auto lanes, anyway.

Denver just needs to make biking a bigger priority. Those fixated on the cost remind me of those families who drive their SUV's to the dollar store and complain about the cost of a candy bar.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Actually, about 30% of the population doesn't drive.

I'm sure you are correct. But what is your definition/description of 'population'?

My reference was intended to mean metro denver residents who would be eligible to drive.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Meliorem

There are no socialist countries in Scandinavia.

Oh Jesus, are we in high school? Bernie "socialism."

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

For the equivalent price of 1 mile of highway.

That's obviously a nonsense statistic. But it sounds good.

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Actually, about 30% of the population doesn't drive.

Kids under 16 are barely human and do not count, so let's take them out, please.

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Those fixated on the cost remind me of those families who drive their SUV's to the dollar store and complain about the cost of a candy bar.

Does this happen? I hear a lot of complaining, but not ever about the cost of a candy bar. A goddamn $8 pumpkin spice latte, yes, those I hear complaining about.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I'm sure you are correct. But what is your definition/description of 'population'?

My reference was intended to mean metro denver residents who would be eligible to drive.

People too young to drive. People too old to drive. People too poor to own a car. People with various physical/mental disabilities that cannot/should not drive. Then there's the people who are eligible to drive but choose not to.

All of these people are still part of the population and they have just as much right to use the public right-of-way as do automobile drivers and they deserve to have safe, convenient, and efficient public infrastructure to provide them with mobility around the city as nonautomobile drivers.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Comparatively, most cities install bike lines for about $150K per mile, but we just need several more installed on non commuter lanes and we'd be fine. Bikers shouldn't be anywhere near high volume auto lanes, anyway.

Denver just needs to make biking a bigger priority. Those fixated on the cost remind me of those families who drive their SUV's to the dollar store and complain about the cost of a candy bar.

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. By way of comparison I think City of Denver has about 150 street miles of bike lanes where City of Phoenix (which is twice as big) has 576 street miles of bike lanes.

Btw, as a practical minded stiff, I love my Honda CRV but avoid the $ stores. For basics or for nuts and bolts I much prefer a Walmart Super Store or Home Depot. For my son's new small patch of grass I found a nearly new hand mower for $8 and rake for $4 at Goodwill that easily fit into my CRV.

Geaux Rockies; beat the D-backs

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

People too young to drive. People too old to drive. People too poor to own a car. People with various physical/mental disabilities that cannot/should not drive. Then there's the people who are eligible to drive but choose not to.

All of these people are still part of the population and they have just as much right to use the public right-of-way as do automobile drivers and they deserve to have safe, convenient, and efficient public infrastructure to provide them with mobility around the city as automobile drivers.

Subject to any laws I wouldn't argue that. Why would I?

[TakeFive]

Source



Rendering courtesy Denver Art Museum

ELEVATE DENVER BONDS BOOST THE DAM’S NORTH BUILDING PROJECT
September 5, 2018 by Kristy Bassuener

After years of quiet fundraising efforts, in December 2016 the museum publicly announced its project plans and launched site preparation for its $150 million North Building project in late 2017, following the successful passage of the City of Denver’s General Obligation Bond package.

When work is completed, the building will have new plumbing, electrical, insulation, and tech infrastructure, as well as a new welcome center and events space. Finally, exterior upgrades will expand outdoor programming options and increase safety for the 200,000 students who visit the museum for free each year, thanks to the museum’s Free for Kids program.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Road signs wouldn't even need to be updated (since what bikers use them anyway).

It's tongue in cheek, but this statement makes me want to vote down the next expansion of Denver's bike network. Even though I probably ignore 50% of the road signs when I'm on a bike.

[fleury]

Interesting:

https://crej.com/news/buyer-drills-bell-park-site/

Not sure if it means anything, but definitely a good sign.

[Denvergotback]

Is a great sign! Unfortunately though it has the name Geller next to it..

[SirLucasTheGreat]

That is very interesting but what real developments has Geller closed recently? I can't help but be very skeptical of anything with his name on it.

[fleury]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

That is very interesting but what real developments has Geller closed recently? I can't help but be very skeptical of anything with his name on it.

Well if they close his name won't be on it anymore. I think this is due diligence. Drilling to make sure they can build a tower there without spending more than they want.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by fleury

Interesting:

https://crej.com/news/buyer-drills-bell-park-site/

Not sure if it means anything, but definitely a good sign.

Nice find.

Geller said he doesn’t think the new development on the site will have an office component, but he said he wouldn’t be surprised if it includes a hotel. “I would think if they did close on it, they would want to build it out to its maximum size,” Geller added.

But will there be a closing?

And while it is a good sign that the prospective buyer is taking core samples, it is not a guaranty the deal will close, Geller cautioned. “Contracts go back and forth. Sometimes they die and sometimes they close. But you are not going anywhere until you do the boring, so that is why I think this is important.”

Folks, at this point it's all up to the buyer to decide. The only potential hitch other than flat-out changing their mind is if 'circumstances' lead them to want to reduce the agreed-to price. Then it's up to both parties to re-agree - or not.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

IDK about a Governor Stapleton. He's also spouting free, free, free via cutting waste, fraud and abuse in gov'mint. As you can attest, CDOT is swimming in money and it's only due to employee incompetence that I-70 hasn't been expanded through the mountains. Plus, he's an east coast carpertbagger.

Oh, and he also has a bedsheet hanging in his closet.

Just cut taxes, it will all pay for itself! Just ask Kansas!

[CherryCreek]

[delete]

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by fleury

Interesting:

https://crej.com/news/buyer-drills-bell-park-site/

Not sure if it means anything, but definitely a good sign.

Whatever happened to this project?




https://denverinfill.com/blog/2017/0...-update-1.html

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Whatever happened to this project?

Hines decided to build in Lawrence after becoming intoxicated by amber waves of grain when Kris Kobach promised no property taxes and prime seats at KU games. No ticky, no laundry, after all.

[Denver]

Submittal with LPC for the Block 162 Hotel. This is a big step forward. The LPC process is not a cheap or easy one to go through. They would not be jumping through these hoops unless they were serious. Also The designs look pretty good. If this gets LPC approval, do not expect the designs to change too dramatically as that would require resubmittal. This current submittal is for mass and form.

https://www.denvergov.org/content/da...ion_091818.pdf