[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

if the government really wanted to get it's hands on the property for further expansion of francophone health care in the city.

I try not say to english or french hospital, since they are both bilingual.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

That's extremely interesting pierre.

- The reference to the Crowne Plaza block and the multi-billionaires from BC no doubt is about the Aquillini Group, but to hear Councillor Boudreau make mention of a "huge real estate development on that block sooner than later" is the closest anyone from city hall has come to admitting that there is something afoot!!! It has been speculated here on SSP for about the last 3-4 years that this consolidation of land by the Aquillini's could mean something big, and now it would seem this speculation may bear fruit!

- The other mention about the three properties on the adjacent block to the north is entirely new, but I checked on the SNB site, and all three properties indeed sold on the same date (December 22nd, 2017) for a combined total of $1.55M. Who purchased this? Was this block purchased by the Aquillini's too?
If so, there could be something truly huge afoot.........

Here are all the consolidated properties near the Avenir Centre that we know about (including the V Hotel, which despite the rumours, still is not listed as being recently sold on the SNB website)



Highfield Street may be about to become a very interesting street........

Thanks for the map! This is the stuff that I find really interesting and exciting! I just wonder why the Aquillini Group would renovate some of the inside of the Crown Plaza if they were going to tear it down to build a replacement hotel? Maybe because they only wanted to build it after the Fredericton build and perhaps because it took so long that they just decided to renovate until then? It just makes me wonder.

Also liking that new building for St. George, this will help rejuvenate this street quicker!

[Taeolas]

Superficial renovations are relatively cheap, and were likely already built into the hotel budget for the future plans, so sprucing it up to be ready for the boost from the first year of the Avenir is a cheap update.

That also gives them a fresh look to judge how the new centre is going and better plan for the future. (how big a project to make and what not). The slowdown in Freddy and the extra costs from that were likely another factor that may delay them further; but I suspect they will move eventually.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Superficial renovations are relatively cheap, and were likely already built into the hotel budget for the future plans, so sprucing it up to be ready for the boost from the first year of the Avenir is a cheap update.

That also gives them a fresh look to judge how the new centre is going and better plan for the future. (how big a project to make and what not). The slowdown in Freddy and the extra costs from that were likely another factor that may delay them further; but I suspect they will move eventually.

Those are some good points. Makes me feel better about them moving sooner rather than later .

[L'homard]

The Crowne's interior renos took almost two years and cost, IIRC $7 million.
That doesn't sound quick and cheap to me, but what do I know?

[Taeolas]

$7 million is a decent amount of money, but pennies compared to the cost of the expected rebuild on that lot we keep theorizing about; and it likely has been in the works for years. The project to rebuild on that site will probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and likely will happen in a few years once Avenir's use has stablized and they can guess how much supply they need to build.

There's a chance they may design it to be an expansion of the existing buildings instead of a complete build from scratch; that would let them stay open and keep using the existing renos.

For the smaller Freddy project, I can't find the cost to build the hotel but Freddy paid Aquilini about 2million just to guarantee the project. So a 7M reno cost isn't that expensive at the valuations they are dealing with.

[MonctonRad]

The interior of the Crowne Plaza has had a complete rebuild and is apparently very nice (although I have not seen this in person).

I can't imagine them tearing it down in any redevelopment of the Aquillini Block.

I can see them recladding the tower to make it more fresh and modern in appearance, and possibly expanding the hotel, perhaps by building a second tower.

JHikka is correct. I think the eventual redevelopment of this block will include a number of components, expanded hotel (maybe with convention facilities), bars, restaurants, retail, enclosed parking and perhaps even a residential tower.

Personally, I have a hunch there will not be a commercial office component. I kinda think that if there is any nearby expansion in this regard, it will be at 1222 Main. I still believe that Crombie has something up it's sleeve for the entire former Terminal Plaza Complex - something along the lines of what I included in my fanciful sketch from earlier this year.........

[lirette]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm not convinced by the street frontage onto St. George but I can't really argue against increased height and density in this area.

As for the Crowne Plaza block I can only assume there will be some sort of mixed-use development. With the arena now across the street they would be foolish not to build something with bars and restaurants, office space, and residential atop. Only questions remaining are just how big they're willing to go.

I was in the Woodlands, TX recently and they have this development in the middle of their townsquare. I'd love to see something similar. It has multiple restuarants on the ground level on 3 sides of the building, including a massive patio space, offices and an attached parking garage that blends in well with the footprint. Something like this with more residential would be a huge addition to that end of town, and spur more development.

http://www.harveybuilders.com/projects/office-buildings/?alttemplate=project&pid=4625#!prettyPhoto

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lirette

I was in the Woodlands, TX recently and they have this development in the middle of their townsquare. I'd love to see something similar.

Eh, looks like something you'd find in an industrial park. Anything on the block that simulates the street presence found further down on Main Street will be doing well. Patio space in the summer is nice but it's useless in the winter when the arena will be hosting hockey games.

[MonctonRad]

I was just on the Crombie REIT website, and was surprised to discover that 1234 Main is 84% leased!

That's a pretty high percentage. If so, I wonder what's preventing them from starting renovations to 1222 Main?

Originally, both towers were to have been renovated and have similar appearances. I still wonder if Crombie doesn't have somewhat grander plans for the whole development (including a connecting podium and perhaps a parking structure, especially if Weldon Street were to be extended)..........


original render

[Ammn_guy]

I heard secondhand that bioscript, due to its fast growth is moving one of their main backoffices in there.. decamping from the Hawk building, and moving some work from ontario, where they are outgrowning their head office space as well.

Looks like only the main floor is left vacant when walking by.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I was just on the Crombie REIT website, and was surprised to discover that 1234 Main is 84% leased!

That's a pretty high percentage. If so, I wonder what's preventing them from starting renovations to 1222 Main?

Originally, both towers were to have been renovated and have similar appearances. I still wonder if Crombie doesn't have somewhat grander plans for the whole development (including a connecting podium and perhaps a parking structure, especially if Weldon Street were to be extended)..........

[OUIR@random]

Things may change around the Crowne Plaza Moncton, but that hotel is not going anywhere...

People are out of their minds if they think that the Crowne Plaza will be demolished or replaced in the near future, that building will still be there in the next 10-20 years. That hotel is perfectly fine now with the renovations done inside, I've stayed there and all is perfectly fine and completely renovated, the bathrooms in the guestrooms are are quite high-end now and the hotel has a new executive club lounge on the top level with views of the city. This was not a "lipstick on a pig" renovation, they only need to do a refresh of the outside of the building now (maybe), people should stop once and for all about this Crowne Plaza bashing. I have no personal or financial interest in the property, but this is getting old and going on for years now, just let it die and let it go people. Geez!

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

So a $60 to $80-million-dollar-a-year tax bill? Sure seems like a lot... I wonder what scale project would this suggest?

A bit late, but tax base doesn't refer to tax revenues, it refers to the value of the properties.

[lirette]

Originally Posted by OUIR@random

Things may change around the Crowne Plaza Moncton, but that hotel is not going anywhere...

People are out of their minds if they think that the Crowne Plaza will be demolished or replaced in the near future, that building will still be there in the next 10-20 years. That hotel is perfectly fine now with the renovations done inside, I've stayed there and all is perfectly fine and completely renovated, the bathrooms in the guestrooms are are quite high-end now and the hotel has a new executive club lounge on the top level with views of the city. This was not a "lipstick on a pig" renovation, they only need to do a refresh of the outside of the building now (maybe), people should stop once and for all about this Crowne Plaza bashing. I have no personal or financial interest in the property, but this is getting old and going on for years now, just let it die and let it go people. Geez!

I'm not sure I see any posts here that justify such a large reaction. I do think the building is quite ugly on the exterior, but agree with you that the interior is very nice. As a functioning hotel it is good to go. Our work uses their meeting rooms and ballrooms quite often for training or large presentations. I'd still love to see some new cladding and windows to bring it to 2018 appearance wise. Mostly because I can see it from my office window everyday. If they are happy with their occupancy rate I wouldn't really blame them not to spend the money, especially given the proximity to the Avenir Centre. I think more than that I want to see the storefronts below it to be completely renovated, those are prime locations, especially once the hyatt is up and running.

[MonctonRad]

Yeah, I agree.

I also don't think there has been any real bashing about the Crowne Plaza, and it has been noted on here several times about the multi million dollar renovations the hotel has had on the inside.

The only real beef with the Crowne Plaza is that the exterior cladding looks rather dated, and with the changes happening in the neighbourhood, they will really have to think about doing something about this.

Of course, if the Aquilini's are planning a major development for the entire block, they may want to wait and coincide the recladding with the remainder of the development project.

[OUIR@random]

As I said before I have no personal or financial interest in that property (Crowne Plaza), but if I had reaction regarding this topic it is because it has been said time and time again on this thread and on different threads of the Moncton section, so yes it was warranted. It's been a downtown Moncton "punching bag" of sorts for a while here. The streetfront tenants might need some help, but let's all move on, the numerous downtown vacant lots need more attention than this property. This property is much more urban and taller (10 floors) than most properties in downtown Moncton, yes I'm looking at you the suburban 4 storey Hyatt hotel growing across the street. Next topic please.

[lirette]

Originally Posted by OUIR@random

As I said before I have no personal or financial interest in that property (Crowne Plaza), but if I had reaction regarding this topic it is because it has been said time and time again on this thread and on different threads of the Moncton section, so yes it was warranted. It's been a downtown Moncton "punching bag" of sorts for a while here. The streetfront tenants might need some help, but let's all move on, the numerous downtown vacant lots need more attention than this property. This property is much more urban and taller (10 floors) than most properties in downtown Moncton, yes I'm looking at you the suburban 4 storey Hyatt hotel growing across the street. Next topic please.

Its one of the biggest developments in an area that is primed for rapid growth and potential. To expect that no one would ever mention the Crowne in a thread about downtown development is a little unrealistic. This forum is not a very busy one..to start censoring opinions we don't like isn't going to help. Saying that the cladding needs updated and that the interior is very nice isn't my definition of a punching bag.

In terms of the Hyatt, I wish it was 6 floors but I do like the space it covers and that it put its parking in the back of the hotel. I'd rather see several lots downtown fill up with 4-6 floors then 1 or 2 buildings go up with big height. We still have a ton of space that needs filled in the downtown area.

They've started putting more work into the part of the foundation on Canada Street this week.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Proposal for a new five storey mixed use (primarily residential) building at 356 St. George Street:





Highlights:

- SW corner of St. George & Weldon.
- Ground level retail facing St. George Street (enclosed parking in behind)
- No vinyl siding!!! (brick on ground floor, "fibre concrete" cladding on upper floors}

According to the T&T, variances have been granted for this proposed development to be located on the site of the old Lyle's service station on St. George Street. The developers (Toogoods) hope to move forward in the springtime, but the provincial environment department still has to sign off on the project regarding possible soil contaminants.

[pierremoncton]

Don't know if this was posted before, but the building at 245-247 St George (https://cwatlantic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/245-247-St.-George-Street-Property-Flyer.pdf) and the adjacent parking lot were sold in December of last year. Windows were boarded up recently, so hopefully something's afoot.

[MonctonRad]

I hope you're right pierre. That building has a lot of potential if renovated properly, especially being so close to Dolma.