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  #341  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2008, 3:55 AM
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Future Mayor Future Mayor is offline
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I just don't get it. Why is it that people feel that allowing Casinos in Ohio will be the saving grace of the economy. It will simply make the poor even worse off. It doesn't seem to have helped Detroit out much has it?

A Casino in downtown Cleveland is a really bad idea.
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  #342  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2008, 3:11 AM
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Thanks, MayDay and Clepride for the info.

I don't want a casino in Cleveland, just because it is a cultural mecca, I mean look at Playhouse Square, the second largest performing arts district in the nation, no need for a casino around there. The downtown is transforming, and I like the way it is headed. Pittsburgh can build a casino along their riverfront, good for them, I think that takes away a lot in the city.

If one were to come to Cleveland, build one in the suburbs lol. Cleveland has history, culture, and much more. I think casinos point a damper on that.
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  #343  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2008, 3:15 AM
Atlantan Atlantan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post
I just don't get it. Why is it that people feel that allowing Casinos in Ohio will be the saving grace of the economy. It will simply make the poor even worse off. It doesn't seem to have helped Detroit out much has it?

A Casino in downtown Cleveland is a really bad idea.
I agree downtown with you. But overall, Ohio could use the money they are loosing. Every state that touches them looses money to casinos in those states besides Kentucky. Ohio could build them out in smaller towns or countryside, or cities like Youngstown, Canton or Springfield, that aren't so large. Look at the lottery, if that can be played in Ohio, casinos should be aloud. Thats all there is to it.

A downtown casino in any Ohio city is a bad idea, the bigger ones, Dayton, Toledo, Akron, Cleveland, Cincinnati or Columbus. They all have too much downtown to be taken away from. All Ohio cities are embarking on so much change... it is awesome.

Cleveland's downtown has a lot to offer, and a casino just isn't one of what should be there.

Sorry if I got off topic.
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  #344  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2008, 8:59 AM
area51ville area51ville is offline
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Lightbulb

A casino won't be the saving grace of our economy, no one said it would. But a casino placed in a well thought out place, not near play house square won't hurt our chances of producing a money making money company. I believe it will only make us more a more diverse city with the things we have that already make us not your average run-of-the-mill town. I could imagine it being built somewhere in the flats area or somewhere in close proximity of it. If the plans for the flats east bank go through it would go incredibly successful, esspecially with the prime clubs and bars around there people will have more things to do. And who knows about the Stark projects if those pull through too I can only forsee good things coming from a casino. If in the end it doesn't work out you can always take the licks, pull the plug and keep it moving. Cleveland in my opinion is a city that has great potenial if the right strategic planners land companies in the proper places downtown. Heres another suggestion, how about north of where the district avenue buildings will be, just a thought.
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  #345  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2008, 5:26 PM
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^I definitely don't see that as an ideal place for a casino. The developers of the Avenue District specifically marketed their project as a "quieter" area of downtown living. They knew that people wanted to be close to the action/nightlife in Gateway and the Warehouse District, but not right on TOP of it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not morally opposed to gambling in the least - and sure, plenty of Ohioans spend their money in other states' casinos. It's just that I've rarely seen any that actually help the streetscape of their respective cities - they're designed to do the opposite: get gamblers in, keep them in, and give them absolutely no reason to leave. No street level retail, just blank walls - and in most cases, an attached parking garage of monstrous proportions. I just don't see an area of downtown Cleveland where that would be the best use of land.
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  #346  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2008, 6:34 PM
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Beware the casinos and their gi-normous parking garages.... They hunger for riverfront property.
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  #347  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2008, 5:05 AM
area51ville area51ville is offline
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If they do hunger it, then like I said I believe somewhere maybe a couple of those shack-like buildings in the flats would be a heavenly place to be located to.

There could be something to the idea of having gambling and clubbing/bar scene around each other?

Thoughts..?
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  #348  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2008, 6:21 PM
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What shack-like buildings are you referring to? The entire East Bank has been leveled for the Wolstein project. The West Bank is a hodgepodge of the newer Stonebridge buildings and older warehouses in various states of rehab.
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  #349  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2008, 6:35 PM
area51ville area51ville is offline
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If you go back to page 17 the only picture posted there. I dont know the status of those places, like where "Dicks" is and those other hut-like buildings.

If you demo a good portion of them, you can start building up the casino there.
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  #350  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2008, 6:49 PM
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Ahh - that's the site of the Flats East Bank project by Wolstein. Everything from the river to West 9th Street, and from Main Avenue north to the railroad tracks has been leveled. They're currently in site prep mode, mostly reworking the utilties/street grid, etc. Here's how it looks at the moment:

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  #351  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 8:37 PM
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Can't wait till steel starts rising from this area.
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  #352  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 8:17 PM
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October 22nd, 2008

Updates - Avenue District, Terminal Tower restoration.

New addition - 668 Euclid project
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  #353  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2008, 8:07 PM
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Terminal Tower looks better everytime I check in on it.
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  #354  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2008, 9:26 AM
area51ville area51ville is offline
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well so much for the casino coming in and maybe thrive our economy a little bit. I seen that Cinncinnati is currently having a 42 floor scraper being built...(sigh) I just wish it wouldnt take us more than 7-8 years to get anything new. What must we do to attract fortune 500 businesses here? They're the ones looking for new headquarters, we should be called the bank city because when you look at our skyline all you see are banking businesses.
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  #355  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2008, 10:44 PM
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Great article in the Pittsburgh thread posted by Cleveland hater, Evergrey bashing Cleveland on an article by the Plain Dealer praising Pittsburgh. It is really interesting, and pulls out Pittsburgh's strengths and Cleveland's many weaknesses.
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  #356  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2008, 4:01 AM
cyclovert cyclovert is offline
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eh, nothing worth quoting has ever met the pages of the plain dealer.

so i'm worried about this creditmortgage meltdown crunch. it sounds delicious but its making a lot of good projects disappear.

any thoughts on the turnout in the next year or should we leave speculation to the wall street folk? also, i read that article on uptown. it made me smile.
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  #357  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2008, 4:02 AM
cyclovert cyclovert is offline
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but that's not a quote from the plain dealer.
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  #358  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2008, 1:44 PM
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^Thanks for not wasting our time quoting complete trash!

The credit crunch is definitely a problem. The Flats East Bank is having trouble getting financing right now, and they're the only major development that has substantial tenants at this point. Bob Stark also threw in the towel for his Pesht plan in the Warehouse District last week, although I think that one was a long shot to begin with. Between the credit crunch and the shrinking list of potential tenants, I would think that we're going to have to wave goodbye to Jacob's proposed tower on Public Square, and Doug Price has said that he will no longer be including a new office building as part of his plan for the redevelopment of the Breuer Tower.

At this point it's just a matter of how quickly the banks start lending again, so we'll have to wait it out and see. However, there is still some reason to be excited about the new convention center and proposed Medical Mart. That plan already has financing through a sales tax increase, and we should be hearing the final site selection in the next few weeks.
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  #359  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 2:14 AM
cyclovert cyclovert is offline
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i was really disappointed to read about stark; i was hoping he was like the mad scientist developer who would go ahead with his zany scheme regardless of the economic climate. frankly, i'm disappointed that he is so staid.

but it sounds like the flats is just a matter of time?
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  #360  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2008, 2:11 AM
riverlover riverlover is offline
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I am new to this forum...and wanted to dive right in on what I read about Casinos… (Sigh1)

Every time I pass one I feel my weight increasing and my iq decreasing. Please… Let’s not think average, mediocre, and sooooo confirm the typical Midwest mentality, as the stereo type goes, by jumping on this casino bandwagon.

Anyone who read the proposed amendment to the constitution would have been nuts to vote for the last proposal. Let’s stop trying to build an economy around the bad habits of gambling, smoking, drinking…all which lead to a physically sick society that will not only fail to perform in the work place, but will also place future strains on social services, health care and so on.

This idea of ‘well, we’re losing money to other states’ is plain rhetorical Bull Bleep! If you want to do something creative---and has socially redeeming value by offering not only a world class attraction, but generates good money and provides something of cultural value and education as well…. Promote the construction of a world class aquarium. Go see www.clevelandaquarium.com

Below is something I wrote to a local paper on why the most recent casino proposal should be voted down. I just wish people would quit harping on Casinos as the panacea for all social woes. It is time to quit copy catting everyone else and doing something totally unique and creative. If you want to generate a vibrant city, then help to foster a vibrant populace in health, physically and mentally. This gaming hooo haa is so overdone and just so average. Anyway...here are my sentiments further on that issue.....

I oppose issue six for several reasons. Before going into a few reasons why it is nothing more than a con to benefit one casino operator, I want to talk a bit about the twisted philosophy we are buying into these days when it comes to curing economic woes---and who we chose to rely on to pull us out of them!

Perhaps it is time people in Ohio stop making 'deals with the joker' in attempts to cure economic/social problems or generate better business.

Let's look at a few examples:

* Schools---stop making deals with the junk food industry thinking you are going to get revenue from, say, vending machines--because the dollar amount the junk food industry yanks from you versus what you keep is not worth it the resulting growing number of obese kids we are helping to produce who could one day place a big strain on health care costs!

* Bar owners who complain about no smoking laws.... Pssst... Stop thinking you have to rely on tobacco to drive your business. Alternatively, develop a new vision or philosophy as to how you can generate more business. Shouldn't the food, drink, or atmosphere be the cornerstone attraction? Is it worth ruining your interior with smoke and making people sicker?

* Now we have bought on to yet another vice driven revenue rescue source...gambling. If the best Ohio can do for economic development is to nurture the 'bad' under the belief that it will ultimately do good, then this is a sick and twisted cultural mentality that needs to be revisited. A mentality as sick as a gambling addiction. Only those in the treatment industry thrive from such a philosophy--and the vast majority of people do not.

None of the above helps to foster a healthy body that will be competitive in today's economy, so who can begin to measure the revenue losses that come from a physically and mentally sick people?--which we are--and growing! Again, only those in the treatment industry gain. What about the rest of us?

Continuing further, lets look at some of the technicals why issue 6 should be opposed. For starters, some of the language suggests that some revenue will help those addicted to gambling. Ok, Let's use gambling to help the gambling addicted. That’s like selling cigarettes to pay for lung cancer research!


Next, if you read through the issue authored by the gaming industry, there are simply too many loopholes that could result in the casino paying absolutely NOTHING to the state because the language states that the casino would pay "up to" x amount of revenue. "Up to" could mean nothing. The gaming industry is in business for one reason--PROFIT...NOT charity. other language in section 6 of the issue reads as follows: (d)The remaining gross casino receipts taxes collected shall be distributed as follows: ten percent (10%) to the county in which the casino is located and ninety (90%) to be distributed on a per capita basis among all 88 counties in Ohio, such funds to be deposited into the general fund of each county and spent at each county's discretion. Where is the accountability here?




I hope Ohioans will remember even just these two examples of language in the proposed amendment that has unaccountability written all over it when they vote. The question is…Are we really going to generate revenue for the state? If so, at WHAT COST???



Sure, several other states have jumped on the casino bandwagon and it may seem like the latest thing to do BUT---If everyone is playing monkey see monkey do, why would Ohio be so different or special enough to attract tourists in drones? A casino? Its just like another Wal-Mart or Walgreens on the corner; nothing special! Are we going to become a destination place like Vegas where people travel to gamble, many of whom actually have some money to blow...or, do we become the gaming industry's patsy. The answer is probably the latter. The gaming industry cannot wait to get its hands on Ohio for several reasons, one such reason is because they know many areas in Ohio are depressed---and what can often come with depression? Drinking and gambling. Stage set...A great place to help nurture a bad habit tinder box and profit at the same time. Some people would even be prone to spending government help money on gaming!

Ohio can be progressive and unique---and say no to the casino rave--and instead spend the money developing and investing in real jobs and fostering a quality workforce, create high tech family sustaining jobs, green jobs--and maybe a green economy to carry us long into the future--and not develop economies that prey upon and make worse already ill social scenes. Contrary to popular myth, casinos will NOT produce the kind of jobs we need in Ohio for its long term success--instead, produced will be many dead end, low paying service oriented jobs already plentiful. The gambling promoters are like opportunistic vultures waiting to swoop down and feast on the weak and dying--and in a time Ohio is weak, they are opportunists. You can do better than follow the gambling band wagon, Ohio.

P.S. On one last footnote: If you read through the constitutional amendment, the proposal basically sets up a monopoly for an out of state casino operator and also leaves little accountability to assure criminals are not employed or involved with the operation of such an establishment. There are simply way too many loopholes in the proposed amendment. Leave the state constitution alone.
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