Building LeBreton Flats - Master Planning

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

It's very clear at this point that the NCC thinks an arena/entertainment venue should be part of Lebreton. All they need is an NHL owner willing to do it. Getting such prime land on a major transit line and adjacent to downtown would be the biggest hurdle for any other NHL franchise....but not us. As usual, Ottawa can't get out of its own way to make something happen

In all but the largest markets (Toronto, Montreal) money would be the largest hurdle, which the NCC has no solution for (as far as I know).

[OTSkyline]

I would love the idea of a fountain show that could be free and run nightly. Something cool and different for locals and tourists a like. The only thing is, it would only operate maybe half of the year and Ottawa doesn't have the best track record maintaining fountains, many of the small ones we have throughout the city are always broken or empty & not running.

Hey, can even continue with the first nations theme and have it set to drums and their music/story, etc..

I wonder if it would be possible to install them in the Ottawa river in that bay (Nepean Bay)? Make it grandioso, less intrusive for Zibi residents and probably easier to install/maintain because there'd be less current than in the middle of the river. Then build a large boardwalk along the river with tiered seating. Great place to walk/have an ice cream/watch a show on a Summer's eve!

[ars]

Not sure if Lebreton would be the most appropriate place for something like this, but I would love to see something like Singapore's Cloud Forest in Ottawa.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Agree with this. 67s need a new rink now and this is the way out so they can demolish the north side stands and arena. Would really love to be able to hop on the LRT for games!

Doubt the 67s are interested in a permanent move to Lebreton. The 67s and Blackjacks are a pretty big part of OSEG's business model.

[SL123]

Originally Posted by ars

Not sure if Lebreton would be the most appropriate place for something like this, but I would love to see something like Singapore's Cloud Forest in Ottawa.

I think Lebreton is THE LOCATION in Ottawa for anything grandiose frankly! Nothing should really be off the table (except for another museum )

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by phil235

Doubt the 67s are interested in a permanent move to Lebreton. The 67s and Blackjacks are a pretty big part of OSEG's business model.

Agree, but I doubt an arena will be built there when the north side stands come down - the site is much too awkward. If not Lebreton, then build something like the Slush Puppie Centre in Gatineau (great arena, but crappy name) in another central spot (ideally on LRT line and 417).

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Agree, but I doubt an arena will be built there when the north side stands come down - the site is much too awkward. If not Lebreton, then build something like the Slush Puppie Centre in Gatineau (great arena, but crappy name) in another central spot (ideally on LRT line and 417).

Remains to be seen what happens to Lansdowne when the North Stands are renovated/replaced. Not replacing the arena means that Lansdowne loses not only multiple tenants but also the ability to host other events and concerts, one of the defining features (and main goal) of the revitalized Lansdowne as a whole. Removing the arena and event space kills a major portion of what Lansdowne as a destination was supposed to be about in the first place.

So i'm guessing they keep the arena there.

LeBreton remains a painfully obvious spot for a larger, NHL-sized event space, capable of hosting not only professional sports and events but larger concerts and events that usually either play in Kanata or are too large for the NAC.

[daud]

@otskyline I like the idea of an amphitheater but really want to revisit what happened with Nepean Point. I was biking a few years ago and went up there. It needed some repair to the seating, a fresh coat of paint but otherwise, it was still an absolutely beautiful location.

I just had to ask myself, how did we just all collectively forget about this spot? Why was nobody doing programming there? The spot did not need a major overhaul, it needed to be maintained and it needed programming. That's it. The view is specatular from there. We build stuff then we let it go and forget about it far too often.

[spotlight]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

It's very clear at this point that the NCC thinks an arena/entertainment venue should be part of Lebreton. All they need is an NHL owner willing to do it. Getting such prime land on a major transit line and adjacent to downtown would be the biggest hurdle for any other NHL franchise....but not us. As usual, Ottawa can't get out of its own way to make something happen

I think you're right, but i think the NCC and the city really are forgetting something quite important.

To be clear i am by no means a fan of Melnyk and i hope with everything inside of me that he sells the team today or tomorrow at the latest.

But whether it's Melnyk or a new owner, there's not an owner out there that would want just an arena on the site and nothing else, and frankly just an arena on the site does nothing for the city, An arena there needs to have things surrounding it (that most owners will want to be able to control or have a share of) such as, hotel or hotels (likely a high end brand) retail, restaurants, bars, clubs. An arena needs to be part of an entertainment district, like they did in Edmonton, Detroit, Toronto etc.. All these owners own or share in the surrounding elements, some of them include real estate on site, but the base of the real estate has retail that they control in part.

I have no faith really in the NCC in understanding this, so even if they build an arena on the site without the backing of Melnyk or another owner, they won't build all of this surrounding it.

There's a reason why Rendez-vous Lebreton was proposed the way it was, because it included all these things.

I fear the NCC will build it the way the NCC typically build things and we'll be left with an arena that has no surrounding support structure and this will make it difficult to have this turned into a destination beacon for the city and to also attract sporting events. music events, large events etc...

[OTownandDown]

We've come full circle on this one. Does Lebreton Flats need to be the flagship entertainment district of the City? When we have Elgin/Glebe-Lansdown/Market, all at a high cost, and all needing additional revenue?

Why does this 'district' need to be anything other than a well-mixed high-density downtown neighbourhood 'district'? We don't need towers in a park, we don't necessarily need all kinds of glitzy entertainment. We need high-density, grocery stores, farmers markets, city services and a main street focal point, with shops and restaurants.

[spotlight]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

We've come full circle on this one. Does Lebreton Flats need to be the flagship entertainment district of the City? When we have Elgin/Glebe-Lansdown/Market, all at a high cost, and all needing additional revenue?

Why does this 'district' need to be anything other than a well-mixed high-density downtown neighbourhood 'district'? We don't need towers in a park, we don't necessarily need all kinds of glitzy entertainment. We need high-density, grocery stores, farmers markets, city services and a main street focal point, with shops and restaurants.

What you've just described is a full city not a destination district which is what everyone wants.

Elgin/Glebe/Market are not entertainment districts, they're just areas of high concentrations of restaurants and nightlife.

I was simply stating that for an arena to work it needs to be surrounded by all the things i mentioned. You can't just plop an arena in the middle of nothing and then expect it to work and attract events and fans/patrons.

Owners don't want that and cities shouldn't want that.

There's a reason even in Ottawa that OSEG decided to own the Redblacks 67's etc.. and propose to build Lansdowne the way they did (not saying Lansdowne is perfect, because it lacks public transit support as a starter) but at least the stadium is well supported and pre and post game atmosphere is good and can be enhanced with other things.. and other events can also be attracted to this area because it's supported with all the surroundings.

Ottawa needs to act like a bigger city in these things like Lebreton, we're not putting farmers markets and city services etc in a piece of property like Lebreton, that makes no sense.

Yes grocery stores and hardware stores and farmers markets can be part of podiums and other locations of the site but they're not the main purpose of Lebreton and they can't be the main focus..

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

[B]NCC's latest search for major LeBreton Flats attraction is 'different this time,' director says


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ion-is-different-this-time-director-says

Sounds like an abusive ex-husband.

Back to the subject at hand, sure some zoos and aquariums focus on saving wildlife and research, but Ottawa's inland location makes an aquarium an odd choice. Just like the car museum, there's little to no link to the city.

As for the arena, I've always hoped that if Melnyk doesn't get his act together, someone else might build an NHL arena, maybe OSEG for the 67s. I know the Civic Centre or replacement is key to Lansdowne's success on paper, but another attraction could always be built there, like a local sports hall of fame, a 900 seat or so concert venue or (for irony's sake) a transit museum. The idea would be to bleed Melnyk out of Kanata by attracting all major shows and concerts to LeBreton.

No reason why the arena can't also include residential/retail/office around it, that way you don't just get an arena with three blank walls, but have it surrounded, or as the "podium" to a larger development.

As for the Ferris Wheel proposal, good idea, wrong spot for it. I would recommend Confederation Park by the Canal. That park is nice to look at, but this would make it more of a destination. It would compliment the summer time Bistro, Winterlude and other events.

[SL123]

Eugene Melnyk doesn't close the door on a new rink at LeBreton Flats

'While the Ottawa Senators owner isn’t actively in pursuit of another bid to build a rink at the site, located 10 minutes west of the downtown core, he didn’t close the door either when asked by this newspaper Wednesday whether he has any interest in building a new rink there.'

https://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/...N09YSBDCqKmjYipiiyhDg#Echobox=1638470395

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by SL123

Eugene Melnyk doesn't close the door on a new rink at LeBreton Flats

'While the Ottawa Senators owner isn’t actively in pursuit of another bid to build a rink at the site, located 10 minutes west of the downtown core, he didn’t close the door either when asked by this newspaper Wednesday whether he has any interest in building a new rink there.'

https://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/...N09YSBDCqKmjYipiiyhDg#Echobox=1638470395

Ok, maybe too early to celebrate. We just need one person willing to work with Melnyk. Someone? Anyone?

Gilles Desjardin! Hey Gilles!? Maudite belle oppurtunité icite!

[Kitchissippi]

Trois-Rivières has a pretty impressive amphitheatre, although I think the better location for something like this is north of Jacques-Cartier Park opposite the Rideau Falls where escaping noise would bother few people.

[SL123]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ok, maybe too early to celebrate. We just need one person willing to work with Melnyk. Someone? Anyone?

Gilles Desjardin! Hey Gilles!? Maudite belle oppurtunité icite!

Definitely too early for any celebration but i definitely did not expect that answer from him. I thought he was way too bitter and narcissistic.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ok, maybe too early to celebrate. We just need one person willing to work with Melnyk. Someone? Anyone?

Gilles Desjardin! Hey Gilles!? Maudite belle oppurtunité icite!

[JayBuoy]

I'm not really for an arena. I find it noxious, offensive, that the feds razed a (poor) neighbourhood and are still fumbling to build an arena 70 years later. The right thing to do is rebuild a neighbourhood.

I don't think an arena should be a priority when we are in the midst of a massive housing crisis. There will be other chances to build luxury infrastructure - arenas, Ferris wheels, water fountain shows. The focus has got to be on building a cohesive, affordable neighbourhood, that is effectively integrated with the rest of the city. Fingers crossed, but my expectations are low.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by SL123

Definitely too early for any celebration but i definitely did not expect that answer from him. I thought he was way too bitter and narcissistic.

If he's done any kind of survey of alternate locations, he knows that the long term viability of the franchise (and his franchise value) are dependent on Lebreton. The issue is that he needs to find someone with the wherewithal to get this done. Maybe this is how the lawsuits settle (he says hopefully)?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by JayBuoy

I'm not really for an arena. I find it noxious, offensive, that the feds razed a (poor) neighbourhood and are still fumbling to build an arena 70 years later. The right thing to do is rebuild a neighbourhood.

Can't we have both?