TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[vid]

Towns in Northern Ontario have property tax rates over 40%. The City of Thunder Bay is responsible for providing social housing, ambulances and welfare services to communities located more than 4 hours away from it. Greenstone is a 120 kilometer long municipality with two exclaves and 4,000 people. You also can't forget, that for the northwest especially, Harris' premiership coincided with a near total collapse of the forestry industry (both the pulp and paper and lumber sides), resulting in thousands of job losses and a decline in over 10% of our regional population and probably close to 20% of the regional economy when adjusted for inflation. It was the Harris government that forced our four hospitals with over 1,000 beds between them (two general and two long-term) into a single 350 bed hospital, resulting in a constant gridlock state since it opened 14 weeks after the Liberals were elected. We were literally in an economic depression for nearly half a decade (Roughly 1998 to 2005) during and after his term and we still haven't fully recovered from it; it's possible we never will. People remember that. That's a big reason why even today, you say "PCs" and people respond with "Mike Harris". Even PC supporters here admit he was terrible and despise him. That's part of why Patrick Brown was so popular in the region: he wasn't Mike Harris. He was the opposite of Mike Harris. He was Dalton McGuinty. Dalton McGuinty wasn't bad for us; objectively, Wynne has been even better. The only policy concerns people really have about the Liberals in this region are hydro costs and provincial debt levels. Harris cancelled our highway improvements; Wynne is completing them. I don't vote Liberal but if my options are them or the PCs I know which direction I'll turn to, and that's reflected in how this city has voted in the past two decades.

Does Toronto have tax rates in the 40s? Does Toronto provide ambulance service to London and social housing to Peterborough? Downloading hurt the entire province but it hurt the north more because we had less capacity to cope with it. It continues to hurt us even more because every solution we've thought of to help us cope with it is blocked by a provincial government that refuses to make policies that benefit the region. One size doesn't fit all when you've got a dense, urban, thriving region and a space, rural, depressed region in the same jurisdiction.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by vid

Towns in Northern Ontario have property tax rates over 40%. The City of Thunder Bay is responsible for providing social housing, ambulances and welfare services to communities located more than 4 hours away from it. Greenstone is a 120 kilometer long municipality with two exclaves and 4,000 people. You also can't forget, that for the northwest especially, Harris' premiership coincided with a near total collapse of the forestry industry (both the pulp and paper and lumber sides), resulting in thousands of job losses and a decline in over 10% of our regional population and probably close to 20% of the regional economy when adjusted for inflation. It was the Harris government that forced our four hospitals with over 1,000 beds between them (two general and two long-term) into a single 350 bed hospital, resulting in a constant gridlock state since it opened 14 weeks after the Liberals were elected. We were literally in an economic depression for nearly half a decade (Roughly 1998 to 2005) during and after his term and we still haven't fully recovered from it; it's possible we never will. People remember that. That's a big reason why even today, you say "PCs" and people respond with "Mike Harris". Even PC supporters here admit he was terrible and despise him. That's part of why Patrick Brown was so popular in the region: he wasn't Mike Harris. He was the opposite of Mike Harris. He was Dalton McGuinty. Dalton McGuinty wasn't bad for us; objectively, Wynne has been even better. The only policy concerns people really have about the Liberals in this region are hydro costs and provincial debt levels. Harris cancelled our highway improvements; Wynne is completing them. I don't vote Liberal but if my options are them or the PCs I know which direction I'll turn to, and that's reflected in how this city has voted in the past two decades.

Does Toronto have tax rates in the 40s? Does Toronto provide ambulance service to London and social housing to Peterborough? Downloading hurt the entire province but it hurt the north more because we had less capacity to cope with it. It continues to hurt us even more because every solution we've thought of to help us cope with it is blocked by a provincial government that refuses to make policies that benefit the region. One size doesn't fit all when you've got a dense, urban, thriving region and a space, rural, depressed region in the same jurisdiction.

My house is worth $150k and my property taxes are about $1500. That is not 40%

[vid]

Well then you don't live in Schreiber.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by vid

Well then you don't live in Schreiber.

Nope.

[vid]

The cities don't have tax rates that high (although if MPAC keeps downgrading industrial properties and giving tax breaks to big box stores we'll get there soon; our limited growth is cancelled out by their assessments and necessitates annual tax rate increases at twice the rate of inflation) but we're still struggling quite a bit.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by vid

Towns in Northern Ontario have property tax rates over 40%. The City of Thunder Bay is responsible for providing social housing, ambulances and welfare services to communities located more than 4 hours away from it. Greenstone is a 120 kilometer long municipality with two exclaves and 4,000 people. You also can't forget, that for the northwest especially, Harris' premiership coincided with a near total collapse of the forestry industry (both the pulp and paper and lumber sides), resulting in thousands of job losses and a decline in over 10% of our regional population and probably close to 20% of the regional economy when adjusted for inflation. It was the Harris government that forced our four hospitals with over 1,000 beds between them (two general and two long-term) into a single 350 bed hospital, resulting in a constant gridlock state since it opened 14 weeks after the Liberals were elected. We were literally in an economic depression for nearly half a decade (Roughly 1998 to 2005) during and after his term and we still haven't fully recovered from it; it's possible we never will. People remember that. That's a big reason why even today, you say "PCs" and people respond with "Mike Harris". Even PC supporters here admit he was terrible and despise him. That's part of why Patrick Brown was so popular in the region: he wasn't Mike Harris. He was the opposite of Mike Harris. He was Dalton McGuinty. Dalton McGuinty wasn't bad for us; objectively, Wynne has been even better. The only policy concerns people really have about the Liberals in this region are hydro costs and provincial debt levels. Harris cancelled our highway improvements; Wynne is completing them. I don't vote Liberal but if my options are them or the PCs I know which direction I'll turn to, and that's reflected in how this city has voted in the past two decades.

Does Toronto have tax rates in the 40s? Does Toronto provide ambulance service to London and social housing to Peterborough? Downloading hurt the entire province but it hurt the north more because we had less capacity to cope with it. It continues to hurt us even more because every solution we've thought of to help us cope with it is blocked by a provincial government that refuses to make policies that benefit the region. One size doesn't fit all when you've got a dense, urban, thriving region and a space, rural, depressed region in the same jurisdiction.

Property tax rates in the north are higher because property values are much lower. Average detached house in Thunder Bay costs $250k. Average detached house in Toronto is $1.3M. If the house in Toronto is taxed at 10%, the house in Thunder Bay needs to be taxed at 50% to match that revenue.

The problem you describe with providing service over a large area is true for all rural municipalities, even in Southern Ontario.

Toronto provides social services for the whole province, the whole country. People from all over the province and the rest of Canada come to Toronto. The city is magnet for people. It is a magnet for the homeless.

Do you think that Toronto and other cities in Southern Ontario are draining the North of its wealth? Thunder Bay would have more money if Toronto was wiped off the map?

We should not ignore the needs of small cities and rural area, but we shouldn't ignore the needs of big cities either. I don't see why people have to talk about these things in such divisive way. I realize the Northern Ontario needs some special attention but don't be so quick to label the rest of Ontario as "bullies".

This is a thread about Ontario highways. Look at Highway 4, going through downtown London, no bypass. Is there a situation like that in Northern Ontario? And there's all those drivers who died on Highway 17 west of Ottawa in the article I posted.

Every place has problems that needs fixing. Maybe the North has more of problems but is that really anybody's fault? I think people are too quick to assign blame. You don't need a scapegoat for everything.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Doady

Do you think that Toronto and other cities in Southern Ontario are draining the North of its wealth? Thunder Bay would have more money if Toronto was wiped off the map?

No, I'm saying that the funding models and policies in place in this province are too rigid for this region to properly cope with the problems it has on its own, and the lack of support from the province is exacerbating it.

Thunder Bay is a magnet for homeless people from the far north, as well. We have between 250 to 500 homesless people in Thunder Bay at any time. That's the equivalent of somewhere around 25,000 homeless people in Toronto. We've lost the ability to cope with this and are essentially in a near-constant state of emergency due to this. We're routinely the murder capital of Canada; almost all of those murders are committed by and against homeless people.

Originally Posted by Doady

We should not ignore the needs of small cities and rural area, but we shouldn't ignore the needs of big cities either. I don't see why people have to talk about these things in such divisive way. I realize the Northern Ontario needs some special attention but don't be so quick to label the rest of Ontario as "bullies".

I don't want to ignore Toronto's needs. I want us to adopt a Chinese style one-province/two-systems model. One size fits all is failing the north.

Originally Posted by Doady

Every place has problems that needs fixing. Maybe the North has more of problems but is that really anybody's fault?

Certainly not the fault of southern Ontario! They're not to blame for anything!!!!!

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by vid

No, I'm saying that the funding models and policies in place in this province are too rigid for this region to properly cope with the problems it has on its own, and the lack of support from the province is exacerbating it.

Thunder Bay is a magnet for homeless people from the far north, as well. We have between 250 to 500 homesless people in Thunder Bay at any time. That's the equivalent of somewhere around 25,000 homeless people in Toronto. We've lost the ability to cope with this and are essentially in a near-constant state of emergency due to this. We're routinely the murder capital of Canada; almost all of those murders are committed by and against homeless people.



I don't want to ignore Toronto's needs. I want us to adopt a Chinese style one-province/two-systems model. One size fits all is failing the north.



Certainly not the fault of southern Ontario! They're not to blame for anything!!!!!

One country**/two systems, and lol that's an entirely different topic.

[Loco101]

I'm with vid on everything he wrote. I don't know of anybody in Timmins who thinks that the province treats our municipality and Northern Ontario well.

Back to Hwys 11 and 17

I feel that the province needs to invest in rest areas along both highways. There are some huge gaps with no bathrooms or services. It's especially bad from October to May when you can't even use almost every picnic park.

There used to be more 24 hour truck stops in the past and some used to be located in remote areas.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by vid

No, I'm saying that the funding models and policies in place in this province are too rigid for this region to properly cope with the problems it has on its own, and the lack of support from the province is exacerbating it. ... I want us to adopt a Chinese style one-province/two-systems model. One size fits all is failing the north.

Well said.

I think Ontario should create regional governments, in a manner similar to what Quebec has/will done/do with Nunavik, and Northwest Territories has done with Inuvialuit.

A regional government of Lakehead (for NW ON) and a regional government of Huron (for NE ON), along with some sort of tripartite joint venture to develop the mineral resources of the far north (with assurance that most of the jobs and such will accrue to the benefit of people in Lakehead and Huron).

Branding these regions will give it more attention and instill a sense of identity, and the regional government would empower the people in these regions.

And obviously these regions have far greater capacity to take on the responsibilities of a province than Nunavik or Inuvialuit, so hopefully the devolution of powers will be substantial and could continue to be devolved over time.

The regions maybe could have their own provincial nominee programs for immigration even.

[vid]

There is really high support for provincial nominee programmes at a regional level here. Thunder Bay is looking at what Manitoba has done and the fact that we can't replicate it as easily is incredibly frustrating.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I'm with vid on everything he wrote. I don't know of anybody in Timmins who thinks that the province treats our municipality and Northern Ontario well.

Back to Hwys 11 and 17

I feel that the province needs to invest in rest areas along both highways. There are some huge gaps with no bathrooms or services. It's especially bad from October to May when you can't even use almost every picnic park.

There used to be more 24 hour truck stops in the past and some used to be located in remote areas.

I would be happy if all the picnic areas are plowed and the outhouses left open.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I would be happy if all the picnic areas are plowed and the outhouses left open.

I would prefer actual building that are heated and have running water and flush toilets. The MTO should look at building some in small towns where there is municipal/treated water and perhaps beside a business.

Maybe beside a restaurant or gas station in a place where nothing is open 24 hours so at least truck drivers and travellers can take a break, use the bathroom and stretch.

Some locations I can think of where they would be useful on Hwy 11: Temagami, Matheson, Smooth Rock Falls, remote location halfway between Hearst and Longlac, Longlac (I don't know if it has anything open 24 hours anymore), Beardmore. West of Thunder Bay I'm not sure as I've only driven the entire stretch to Rainy River once.

As for Hwy 17, maybe somebody who drive it more often that I do can make some suggestions.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I would prefer actual building that are heated and have running water and flush toilets. The MTO should look at building some in small towns where there is municipal/treated water and perhaps beside a business.

Maybe beside a restaurant or gas station in a place where nothing is open 24 hours so at least truck drivers and travellers can take a break, use the bathroom and stretch.

Some locations I can think of where they would be useful on Hwy 11: Temagami, Matheson, Smooth Rock Falls, remote location halfway between Hearst and Longlac, Longlac (I don't know if it has anything open 24 hours anymore), Beardmore. West of Thunder Bay I'm not sure as I've only driven the entire stretch to Rainy River once.

As for Hwy 17, maybe somebody who drive it more often that I do can make some suggestions.

I would love that too, but simply being able to use a toilet year round would be an improvement.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I would prefer actual building that are heated and have running water and flush toilets. The MTO should look at building some in small towns where there is municipal/treated water and perhaps beside a business.

Maybe beside a restaurant or gas station in a place where nothing is open 24 hours so at least truck drivers and travellers can take a break, use the bathroom and stretch.

Some locations I can think of where they would be useful on Hwy 11: Temagami, Matheson, Smooth Rock Falls, remote location halfway between Hearst and Longlac, Longlac (I don't know if it has anything open 24 hours anymore), Beardmore. West of Thunder Bay I'm not sure as I've only driven the entire stretch to Rainy River once.

As for Hwy 17, maybe somebody who drive it more often that I do can make some suggestions.

From west to east:
At Williard Lake (between Kenora and Vermillion Bay), then halfway between Dinorwic and Ignace, then Upsala, then Shabaqua Corners; between T Bay and Nipigon, there's already a flying J at the end of 587 but we can also add a rest station at, say, Dorion?

Now the stretch between Nipigon and SSM will be where the rest stations are needed the most:
One between Kama Bay and Gravel River, then one near Rainbow Falls, then Schreiber, Jack Fish, Neys, Marathon, Hemlo, White River, Michicoten, somewhere between that and Agawa Bay, Agawa Bay, somewhere between that and Batchawana Bay, Batchawana Bay and Goulais River.

From SSM on, just one at every single town by the 17.

[Loco101]

Almost all of those types of sites need to be in towns so that there is monitoring of them and that they can be hooked up to water and sewer. That way costs would be lower and people would be nearby to work at them for cleaning and maintenance.

The remote ones should be under the control of whoever has the maintenance contract for the section of highway. Those companies already do the picnic parks and even a few that have flush toilets.

The other thing about having facilities like that is that it is a safe place for vehicles to stop if the weather is bad.

[Dengler Avenue]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...39991&page=902
#18022
Time to play with 17 between Nipigon and SSM
Seriously, though, if done properly, it will never be closed due to weather again. Right now, this is the biggest problem with that stretch.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...39991&page=902
#18022
Time to play with 17 between Nipigon and SSM
Seriously, though, if done properly, it will never be closed due to weather again. Right now, this is the biggest problem with that stretch.

Too bad there isn't some technology that could ride on some sort of metal rails that does not need to stop due to weather.....

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Too bad there isn't some technology that could ride on some sort of metal rails that does not need to stop due to weather.....

What are you talking about?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

What are you talking about?

I think there are things similar to this that has the acronyms CPR, OVR, ACR...