ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[Street Advocate]

Anybody know what this is about? "Review and comment for the transfer of development from the Maraget Mitchell House to 1138 Peachtree Street"

[RATBOYKEV]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Anybody know what this is about? "Review and comment for the transfer of development from the Maraget Mitchell House to 1138 Peachtree Street"

The MM house had transferred some of their "Air-rights" to Yoo on the Park when it was under design which allowed it to go about 5-6 floors taller than it otherwise would have been. It would seem that the MM House is selling the rest of their air rights for the next Trillist project.

If you don't know what "Air-Rights", see the wikipedia page.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by RATBOYKEV

The MM house had transferred some of their "Air-rights" to Yoo on the Park when it was under design which allowed it to go about 5-6 floors taller than it otherwise would have been. It would seem that the MM House is selling the rest of their air rights for the next Trillist project.

If you don't know what "Air-Rights", see the wikipedia page.

Ah. Those air rights would be fore the house adjacent 1138 and not actually the margaret mitchell house at 976 crescent? I think someone mentioned that not too long ago.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Some people forget that this WAS done right the first time - according to the styles that were popular then. It would be easy if we could look ahead and say "that won't be in style in 30 years so let's try something else" but unfortunately we are usually stuck with the prevailing designs of the day - and Atlanta's reign as the murder capital of the nation along with a negative perception of downtown gave rise to the "safety" of these fortresses that we now wish were more open and inviting. Who knew.

I am okay with Peachtree Center.

It is certainly no worse than the International Style buildings that were added to Rockefeller Center in the 1960s and 70s (McGraw Hill, Celanese, Exxon, etc.).

And I certainly don't think Peachtree Center hurt downtown -- to the contrary, it was largely responsible for Atlanta having a big city skyline. I worked downtown in those days and we all considered Peachtree Center very exciting. It's hard to imagine what would have happened if Portman hadn't come along.

[Atlanta3000]

North & Line

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

North & Line

I am glad a few of the more recent developments in O4W have street retail. As many apartments and townhomes that are going up in this area, there isn't much street activation other than along north highland in Inman Park and a tiny stretch along ralph McGill. I'm really hoping we get another 5+ years of development. Would be amazing to see what comes of the area in that time.

[Street Advocate]

Drove through midtown and made a few observations:

Hanover W Peachtree is above ground on both portions of the lot and is around 5 stories at its tallest location (although it tiers down at the moment), Alta midtown is 3 stories, AMLI Arts Center and Apogee both appear about 7 stories, Post Millenium is making a mark on the skyline from a few angles across the highway and in Midtown (couldn't count the stories driving by, but a handful over 10 I'd presume), and Modera Midtown is almost as tall as University House. No sign of movement on juniper & 5th, while Broadstone Terraces just north of it is beginng to touch up the facade and windows are in.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Vaden

I hate everything about that PC "renovation." One thing I hate about Atlanta is how it latches like a leech onto every "new" fad coming down the pike while simultaneously self-hating it's own landmarks. More mature cities accept themselves. For example, you'd never hear of NYC trying to "update" or "renovate" Rockefeller Center. Rockefeller Center has a central courtyard too, and New Yorkers love it. EVERYTHING doesn't need changed. Peachtree Center's central plaza is nice with it's glass ceiling, flags, planters, and sculpture. Now it's all going to be ripped out for this silliness. It's like the teenager of cities-always trying to change itself to suit someone else's vision of what it needs to be like. Until you love yourself, you can't expect others to either.

It's not a street nor should it try to be one.

How ridiculous to try and make this some sort of Atlanta shortcoming. Take it up with the current owners, Orlando based Parkway Properties.

I guess you've never been to San Francisco, home to an almost identical complex by John Portman known as Embarcadero Center. The only difference is that Embarcadero's towers are taller, but they are otherwise identical.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by Vaden

I hate everything about that PC "renovation." One thing I hate about Atlanta is how it latches like a leech onto every "new" fad coming down the pike while simultaneously self-hating it's own landmarks. More mature cities accept themselves. For example, you'd never hear of NYC trying to "update" or "renovate" Rockefeller Center. Rockefeller Center has a central courtyard too, and New Yorkers love it. EVERYTHING doesn't need changed. Peachtree Center's central plaza is nice with it's glass ceiling, flags, planters, and sculpture. Now it's all going to be ripped out for this silliness. It's like the teenager of cities-always trying to change itself to suit someone else's vision of what it needs to be like. Until you love yourself, you can't expect others to either.

It's not a street nor should it try to be one.

i mostly agree. peachtree center is kind of iconic... did this redesign come from portman himself? there's no reason they can't keep the skylight and plaza designs intact and open up the first floor all around with retail. this renovation isn't respectful to the original design.

[sbrptree]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Drove through midtown and made a few observations:

Hanover W Peachtree is above ground on both portions of the lot and is around 5 stories at its tallest location (although it tiers down at the moment), Alta midtown is 3 stories, AMLI Arts Center and Apogee both appear about 7 stories, Post Millenium is making a mark on the skyline from a few angles across the highway and in Midtown (couldn't count the stories driving by, but a handful over 10 I'd presume), and Modera Midtown is almost as tall as University House. No sign of movement on juniper & 5th, while Broadstone Terraces just north of it is beginng to touch up the facade and windows are in.

I believe the crane for 3rd and Peachtree was going up today...or at least the base

[A-town]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

North & Line

This looks really good. Has a modern Tuscan look and feel to it. This a style we haven't seen so it's welcomed. I also likes how the Gateway seamlessly flows into the retail portion of this development, which looks to be substantial. Couple that with the greenspace frontage and direct access to the Beltline and this place is a slice of heaven. It's urbanity perfected.

[Vaden]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

Rockefeller Center in NYC was INDEED updated and renovated in 1998 by Beyer Blinder and Belle- the same firm working with Lord Aeck Sargant on Colony Square. Which was one of the reasons they won the project at Colony Square.

These projects have to compete with other retail markets and opening up the plaza to be more restaurant-centric at the street level will help pivot into a better urban space. The current configuration of the space is dead for a reason.



http://www.beyerblinderbelle.com/pro...efeller_center

Not the same at all. They did not significantly change the appearance of it. They didn't take out the flags, the skating rink, the plaza, and the statue of Prometheus either. They even ADDED more light for the underground shops, not take it away like PC's design shows. It' still pretty much recognizable to what it always was. PC's is the opposite; they are taking out everything including it's sculpture. What PC is proposing is a total alteration of the complex's appearance. Looking down from the glass into the shops is one of the more interesting features of the complex. You'll also find that there were MANY complaints and protests against what they tried to do at RC. Note the first 3 results of the following search of the complaints lodged by the NYC Landmark Preservation Committee and NYC residents in the New York Times.
https://www.google.com/#q=rockefelle...998+renovation

[Sbgt92]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

North & Line

This rendering seems to show the beltline in front of this development, at the bottom of the hill. Am I crazy, or is the beltline actually up the hill and not visible in this rendering. Down the hill is 4th Ward Park, right? Also, Ford Lofts and PCM are mirrored, I think, but I can handle that.

That said, I think the design is fine.

[Vaden]

Originally Posted by Martinman

You beat me to it.



Whether this is true or not "Atlanta" doesn't get a vote on this renovation. This is a private enterprise doing something that they believe will enhance their property.
Peachtree Center is hardly comparable to Rockefeller Center. I don't know that anyone would call it beautiful and it certainly is not iconic.

Your post is opinionated bias rather than facts. "You" don't get to determine what's beautiful and what isn't. I think PC is beautiful and I don't care who knows it. Many people don't think RC is beautiful either. I'm not one of them. PC is iconic for Atlanta. On the contrary, PC was specifically influenced by and compared to RC. It was not as successful, that's a given. It's not a global icon like RC because Atlanta isn't as famous as NYC. NYC itself is iconic due to so many decades of mass media surrounding it, featuring it, and setting the stage for it. PC, like RC, is a time-capsule of a certain era and should be left largely as is.

I'm afraid that "private enterprises" build virtually everything in our country's cities. That doesn't stop other cities from enacting strong preservation laws that save them from destruction or vandalism. NYC's Landmark Preservation Commission has listed thousands of buildings as city landmarks. How do they do that if "private enterprise" is in total control? The truth is, it isn't in cities that save their architecture.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Sbgt92

This rendering seems to show the beltline in front of this development, at the bottom of the hill. Am I crazy, or is the beltline actually up the hill and not visible in this rendering. Down the hill is 4th Ward Park, right? Also, Ford Lofts and PCM are mirrored, I think, but I can handle that.

That said, I think the design is fine.

The rendering is accurate. There's a sidewalk in O4W park just as we see in the foreground, you can see the BeltLine on top of the hill at the top right, PCM is at the correct location, Ford Factory Lofts is not in the rendering, and that is 755North back by the BeltLine at the top right.

[Vaden]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Sorry but Rockerfeller Center has been through several renovations during its lifetime, and it's not unusual for historic plazas and/or developments to undergo changes that will help make them more fitting for today's uses...does that ruin your theory or what?

This blanket generalization about what "Atlanta" does is pure nonsense. Every time someone comes up with one of these half-baked theories about how simple and backwards Atlanta is compared to other cities it's extremely easy to come up with a list of examples proving them wrong. Comments like the one above just show a lack of understanding about Atlanta and its history.

My theory is not ruined at all. RC's core attributes have never been completely removed or changed like the PC renovation. RC's appearance largely adheres to what it always was-like the central plaza, Prometheus, skating rink, Atlas, Art Deco, etc. Their changes were MUCH MORE SUBTLE.

You are terribly smug about a differing opinion. I am not insulting Atlanta as a whole. It's one of my favorite cities actually. But there are a few aspects of it I don't love. If you have a problem with different viewpoints, you don't need to be participating in a forum. Don't insult my intelligence, and I will do the same. Get used to different views because I'm going to do it again, and I'm not going away.

[shivtim]

^Could you please take your discussion of Rockefeller Center to one of the appropriate Atlanta discussion forums rather than clogging up the development thread with back-and-forth off topic posts? Thanks!

[Vaden]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I am okay with Peachtree Center.

It is certainly no worse than the International Style buildings that were added to Rockefeller Center in the 1960s and 70s (McGraw Hill, Celanese, Exxon, etc.).

And I certainly don't think Peachtree Center hurt downtown -- to the contrary, it was largely responsible for Atlanta having a big city skyline. I worked downtown in those days and we all considered Peachtree Center very exciting. It's hard to imagine what would have happened if Portman hadn't come along.

Thank you for sharing that. That's my feeling too. People often forget that interior changes can matter just as much if not more so. What they did at 230 building was a good solution.

[Vaden]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^Could you please take your discussion of Rockefeller Center to one of the appropriate Atlanta discussion forums rather than clogging up the development thread with back-and-forth off topic posts? Thanks!

The blame for "clogging" the thread resides elsewhere. It belongs to those who felt it necessary to lambast my post with untruths/halftruths. My post was Atlanta-centric regarding PEACHTREE CENTER. I simply responded to personal attacks furnished with partially misconstrued information. I attacked no ones post. Thanks.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

i mostly agree. peachtree center is kind of iconic... did this redesign come from portman himself? there's no reason they can't keep the skylight and plaza designs intact and open up the first floor all around with retail. this renovation isn't respectful to the original design.

I believe Beck Group is doing the re-positioning but pretty certain Portman isn't part of these renovations.