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  #341  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2019, 8:22 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I wasn't always on board with this project, but I now understand the importance of it. We can't place all of our hopes and dreams in the rail projects. We need infrastructure to compliment the rail network and provide good transit for the entire city. By building-up multi-modal transit, especially within the Greenbelt, we can increase ridership in a significant way to the point where rail will one day be justified for more than just suburb to downtown commutes.
Stockholm is probably a good comparison to Ottawa. A city that is perhaps 50% bigger than Ottawa but has quadruple the transit ridership. In the long-term, dependence on one rail line is going to sink Ottawa and actually encourage auto dependence if we cannot resolve reliability issues. We need a more complex transit grid, some rail, some buses. We have fallen way behind thanks largely to governments like Mike Harris that delayed transit development in Ontario by 20 years.
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  #342  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2019, 8:50 PM
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I would love to see electric BRT on Carling. Had they set aside a ROW in the Oblates development, a 1.5 km tunnel under the Glebe between Bronson and Main would have sufficed to push it out towards Hurdman
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  #343  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2019, 11:36 PM
PHrenetic PHrenetic is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I wasn't always on board with this project, but I now understand the importance of it. We can't place all of our hopes and dreams in the rail projects. We need infrastructure to compliment the rail network and provide good transit for the entire city. By building-up multi-modal transit, especially within the Greenbelt, we can increase ridership in a significant way to the point where rail will one day be justified for more than just suburb to downtown commutes.
Good Day.

Bingo!
I have been an advocate of this connection for a long time, believing it should have been built even before they dug the first hole for Stage 1 rail,
and completed before the first of the T-Way closures.
It would have allowed some relief from the DownTown load, but ......
It similarly should have been built big-time before even starting Stage 2 for the same, but now even bigger, same reason.
And now, for the reasons you have well-put, it is still a big need. IMHO.
It is close enough in to provide good alternative cross-town, but not too close in to be caught up in too much traffic.
And Hunt Club is still too far out for high-useage cross-town BRT.

Along with, as a councilor, and a transit commissioner have noted, NOT cutting the buses back, everywhere, yet again, hiding it in the C-Line launch.
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  #344  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 4:50 AM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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So the mayor's budget speech specifically mentioned $9.3 million for transit priority measures on Baseline "west of Woodroffe to Bayshore Station".



That was not the segment originally contemplated to be done first (and IMO not as important as connecting Algonquin to the SE Transitway) but I guess they are trying to make some improvement to the corridor while they wait for the funding for the BRT project?

https://jimwatsonottawa.ca/en/mayor-jim-watsons-draft-budget-2020-speech/
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  #345  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 10:44 PM
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p. 19
https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents/files/baseline_brtboards_final_en.pdf

Transit Priority Measures
While the alignment from Bayshore Station to Baseline Station is identified
as being operational sometime post 2031, there are opportunities for
interim Transit Priority Measures to be implemented along the corridor
prior to 2031. These are included as part of the Recommended Plan.

Transit Priority Measures being considered are:
• The removal of bus bays to reduce merging requirements for busses
• Signal timing improvements
• Queue jump lanes at Greenbank
• Intermittent bus only lanes in select portions (Where existing roadway
can be reallocated)

These measures will help improve transit operations in the western half of
the study area prior to ultimate implementation of the project.
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  #346  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 1:07 AM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
p. 19
https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents/files/baseline_brtboards_final_en.pdf

Transit Priority Measures
While the alignment from Bayshore Station to Baseline Station is identified
as being operational sometime post 2031, there are opportunities for
interim Transit Priority Measures to be implemented along the corridor
prior to 2031. These are included as part of the Recommended Plan.

Transit Priority Measures being considered are:
• The removal of bus bays to reduce merging requirements for busses
• Signal timing improvements
• Queue jump lanes at Greenbank
• Intermittent bus only lanes in select portions (Where existing roadway
can be reallocated)

These measures will help improve transit operations in the western half of
the study area prior to ultimate implementation of the project.
This project strikes me as an odd selection of choices.

The City has chosen to build the section east of Baseline Station in its entirety as a first phase. I find this odd because, in my experience, the morning delays along Baseline are heading east from Richmond Road to Woodroffe. The westbound traffic seems to flow fairly well along the entire length of Baseline in the morning. In the afternoon, the traffic is bumper to bumper from Riverside through to Woodroffe, then it clears out and flows fairly well. The afternoon east-bound traffic seems to flow fairly well all along Baseline. Yes, Baseline gets busy, but the real problem segments are going to Woodroffe from the west, in the morning, and to Woodroffe from the east in the afternoon.

Why, if it cares about getting the buses moving, does the City not phase the project to build the east-bound portion west of Woodroffe, and the west-bound lanes east of Woodroffe?

Then there is the dogged determination to take the buses to Bayshore mall. Why? The current bus traffic goes through Bells Corners and on to service Kanata. Is OC Transpo planning on splitting the route and having everyone transfer to a new route that runs from the Queensway-Carleton Hospital out to Kanata, via Robertson Road?

With the DND campus filling up, these buses should be continuing, as they do now, through Bells Corners, with every second bus turning north on Moodie Drive, going to Moodie Station, and then up to the DND campus. This would connect the DND workers to Bells Corners, and connect Bells Corners to the Moodie Station. (In the meantime, the # 57 Bells Corners – former # 97 – should be extended from its current terminus on Fitzgerald, north, through the Moodie Station, to the DND campus.)

Anyway, those are moot points.

Regarding the planned Transit Priority measures west of Woodroffe, I’m not a big fan of removing bus bays, but OC Transpo is. I am hoping that, since this is a temporary measure, they will simply pin down pre-cast curb segments and back-fill with asphalt. That way they will not be cutting into the road surface. The idea of pre-cast curbs has been used in the past, and I hope that it is used here. It would be much cheaper, since this is a temporary measure

Of course, many of the bus-bays are, actually the turning ramps for side-streets. I doubt that they are filling those in – but I might be wrong.

I would be interested in seeing what is planned for the queue-jumps at Greenbank Road. The west-bound-to-north-bound ramp is so short, it is usually blocked by straight-through traffic. Bu the time a bus can reach the ramp, it can usually get through the intersection. And there really isn’t extra room in the existing road allowance. Is the City expecting to expropriate part of the parking lot of the strip mall?

In the east-bound direction, there is no right-turn ramp onto Greenbank, so there is nowhere for a queue-jump to launch from. And, again, the Right of Way does not permit an extra lane to be added here. Again, is the City anticipating expropriating – this time, from the row-houses?

I also am curious about which sections of roadway will become Bus Only lanes. I assume that it will be the east-bound third lane that starts at Centrepointe Dr. W. If the curb lane is taken all the way to Constellation Dr., then it will leave only a very short section for a large number of vehicles to shift over to the right to go straight through the Woodroffe intersection. If they do take that lane for buses, then they should change the road markings so that the straight-through lanes veer to the right and the two left-turn lanes begin on the left – similar to what the lanes do in the west-bound half of the road.

Of course, the buses could be bumped from Baseline to Gemini Way, with a stop at each end of that street. That would avoid some of the traffic on Baseline.
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  #347  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 2:14 AM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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The full Transportation draft budget is here: http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=612061

Baseline BRT is now shown in the capital forecast as $55M in 2021, $106M in 2022.

EDIT: The WIP shows project 907436 Baseline Rd BRT (Baseline Stn-Heron Stn) with total authority of $6M and $0 spent as of August 31..
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  #348  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 2:45 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Since Ottawa drivers ESPECIALLY IN THE WEST END are completely incapable of letting buses back into the traffic flow after stopping in a "bay", good riddance to every damn bus bay. The concrete and asphalt plants that serve Ottawa can''t possibly generate enough product, quickly enough, to fill the damn things in as far as I'm concerned.
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  #349  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 3:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Since Ottawa drivers ESPECIALLY IN THE WEST END are completely incapable of letting buses back into the traffic flow after stopping in a "bay", good riddance to every damn bus bay. The concrete and asphalt plants that serve Ottawa can''t possibly generate enough product, quickly enough, to fill the damn things in as far as I'm concerned.
OMG I agree with Uhuniau!!!
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  #350  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Since Ottawa drivers ESPECIALLY IN THE WEST END are completely incapable of letting buses back into the traffic flow after stopping in a "bay", good riddance to every damn bus bay. The concrete and asphalt plants that serve Ottawa can''t possibly generate enough product, quickly enough, to fill the damn things in as far as I'm concerned.
Even for drivers who want to let the bus in, bus bays are tough to deal with. You have to make a split second decision to decide if you can pass the bus or if it wants to merge since the drivers put on there signal about half a second before they start driving, which means, as soon as you see the signal turn on, you have to slam on the brakes to let it in. They would work a lot better if they made the bus bays longer, so that the bus could build up some speed before merging, giving other vehicles time to slow down and let it in.
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  #351  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Even for drivers who want to let the bus in, bus bays are tough to deal with. You have to make a split second decision to decide if you can pass the bus or if it wants to merge since the drivers put on there signal about half a second before they start driving, which means, as soon as you see the signal turn on, you have to slam on the brakes to let it in. They would work a lot better if they made the bus bays longer, so that the bus could build up some speed before merging, giving other vehicles time to slow down and let it in.
Makes much more sense to just remove the bus bays entirely. Buses stop in the traffic lane. Cars must wait behind or change lanes in advance to pass in the other lane. Some delays to vehicles, but no delays to buses which is the point of transit priority.
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  #352  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2020, 2:30 PM
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Is Baseline BRT a shovel ready project that might benefit from a government stimulus program when the COVID crisis finally subsides?
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  #353  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2020, 7:44 PM
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It should be; funding for detailed design was announced in 2016 and it is shown as Completed on the Infrastructure Canada website: https://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/pt-sp/pt-sp-on-eng.html
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  #354  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2020, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Is Baseline BRT a shovel ready project that might benefit from a government stimulus program when the COVID crisis finally subsides?
Good Day.

Could easily be, IF Jimmy lets it be so. An EA is on file.

Right along with Phase 3 LRT to Barrhaven (EA almost done, needs a finish push) and Stittsville (EA done).

But not Phase 3.5 across the PoW to Tache or TerrasseChaudiere (no EA, not shovel-ready, because Jimmy sat on it).

And Hamilton could well get their LRT out of it.

Hope ??
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  #355  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2020, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
It should be; funding for detailed design was announced in 2016 and it is shown as Completed on the Infrastructure Canada website: https://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/pt-sp/pt-sp-on-eng.html
An interesting one is fare gate entrances at Transitway stations. Was this really done? Which stations?

Really hoping Baseline Transitway can get going. That would be the first transit project truly built to serve the inner-Greenbelt since the original O-Train.
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  #356  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2020, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post

But not Phase 3.5 across the PoW to Tache or TerrasseChaudiere (no EA, not shovel-ready, because Jimmy sat on it).
:
Is that even being seriously considered?

I'd say even a Kettle Island road bridge is further along and more likely to materialize.

We're still talking about "NOT LIKELY" vs. NOT LIKELY AT ALL" here.
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  #357  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2020, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
An interesting one is fare gate entrances at Transitway stations. Was this really done? Which stations?

Really hoping Baseline Transitway can get going. That would be the first transit project truly built to serve the inner-Greenbelt since the original O-Train.
I believe this was the second entrance at Tunney's and the TVMs along the south-east transitway after a change in scope.
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  #358  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2020, 12:58 AM
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I believe this was the second entrance at Tunney's and the TVMs along the south-east transitway after a change in scope.
Thanks for the info.
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  #359  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2020, 1:00 AM
PHrenetic PHrenetic is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Is that even being seriously considered?

I'd say even a Kettle Island road bridge is further along and more likely to materialize.

We're still talking about "NOT LIKELY" vs. NOT LIKELY AT ALL" here.
Good Day.

It keeps getting presented as serious, unless it's not,
for certain momentary advantages in whichever breeze is blowing at the time in front of whichever cameras and audiences of the moment......

And the Kettle Bridge is pretty much exactly as far along (or not, depending on how you use your verbs),
since the NCC studies were last canned by both provinces.
It was kinda re-animated by federal ministers in the previous budget as back on the table to study if it could be studied.

So, unless things really magic themselves up, both (or neither) are just as (not) likely.

Bureaucratese !
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  #360  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2020, 1:06 AM
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I believe this was the second entrance at Tunney's and the TVMs along the south-east transitway after a change in scope.
Speaking of those TVMs, when will they be activated! Its been years...
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