The 401

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Can't wait for 401 to be 6+ lanes through to the Quebec border. Well, at least from London eastwards.

Might take 50+ years, so I hope you're willing to wait till then

[north 42]

Isn't Chatham-Kent the only stretch between Windsor and London that isn't 6 lanes? Hopefully it gets upgraded sooner rather than later, because even though it has relatively low traffic volumes, it's a pain in my ass sometimes when I'm headed east.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by north 42

Isn't Chatham-Kent the only stretch between Windsor and London that isn't 6 lanes? Hopefully it gets upgraded sooner rather than later, because even though it has relatively low traffic volumes, it's a pain in my ass sometimes when I'm headed east.

Tilbury to London is the only stretch that isn't at least 6 lanes wide between Windsor and Coberg.

[MolsonExport]

My reasons for wanting the expansion is because of trucks. I hate driving on a truck-filled highway when there are only two lanes each way. You get stuck behind trucks. Boxed in by trucks. Blocked from passing by passing trucks (those that take eons to overtake the truck in the left lane). Or maybe, having some frustrated trucker riding your ass so he can take out the agony of his job.

[ssiguy]

Parts of the 401 in Eastern Ontario do not even come closed to needing 6 lanes.

The 401 from London to Windsor and Toronto to Kingston are the main priorities but after that it won't be needed for decades.

[MolsonExport]

ever seen the 401 in eastern Ontario with a lane closure, due to an accident or roadwork (stupid f'ing pylons)? On a holiday weekend, that means being backed up for 20 or more kilometres.

[haljackey]

The problem with transport trucks is that they have speed limiters.

Example: say one company sets it to 60 MPH (96.5 km/h) and the other is 62 MPH (100 km/h), that means if both are doing their max speed it will result in a 2 MPH difference between the two. That's why it takes forever to pass.

In Ontario, speed limiters have a max of 105 km/h (65 MPH), same in Quebec.

It's not that trucks are asses (in most cases), its that they actually can't go any faster. As long as they are actually passing in the left lane, there is nothing at all wrong with it and we need to suck it up or ask the government for changes. They can include:
-Adding a third lane restricted to trucks
-Add a law that restricts trucks from using the left lane except under certain circumstances
-Increase or eliminate speed limiters
-Require trucks being passed to lower their speed so they can get passed 'faster'

[sonysnob]

It'll be interesting to see what happens east of Cobourg in the next few years. The 5 year plan is noticeable absent of any plans between Cobourg and Brighton. If the road isn't widened, it will at least need to be resurfaced during that time frame.


East of Cobourg, taken in August.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by haljackey

It's not that trucks are asses (in most cases), its that they actually can't go any faster. As long as they are actually passing in the left lane, there is nothing at all wrong with it and we need to suck it up or ask the government for changes. They can include:
-Adding a third lane restricted to trucks
-Add a law that restricts trucks from using the left lane except under certain circumstances
-Increase or eliminate speed limiters
-Require trucks being passed to lower their speed so they can get passed 'faster'

You forgot the most likely option:
- Do nothing.



In a lot of states, particularly in the south, it is not uncommon to see transport trucks doing 80 MPH on the freeway in the left lane. In fact, in a lot of states, trucks aren't restricted from the left lane of a freeway when there are three or more lanes going in the same direction. It's a very different driving culture.

[1overcosc]

6 laning is warranted between Cobourg and Kingston but not anywhere east of Kingston really. From Kingston to 416 volumes are high enough that you could justify it but it's not really necessary. From 416 to QC border, absolutely not.

[TownGuy]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

It'll be interesting to see what happens east of Cobourg in the next few years. The 5 year plan is noticeable absent of any plans between Cobourg and Brighton. If the road isn't widened, it will at least need to be resurfaced during that time frame.


East of Cobourg, taken in August.

The stretch right passed where they are currently widening is a nightmare of hills, twists and turns. I'm sure that has something to do with it. I do welcome the work that is being currently done even though the time frame seems extreme. Completion is fall 2017 for 8 or so km of highway. That will be +2.5 years total!

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

The stretch right passed where they are currently widening is a nightmare of hills, twists and turns. I'm sure that has something to do with it. I do welcome the work that is being currently done even though the time frame seems extreme. Completion is fall 2017 for 8 or so km of highway. That will be +2.5 years total!

That's about normal. Widening projects typically take 2-3 years.

[TownGuy]

Why so long? Is it just me or are we horrible with dilly-dallying projects like this in Canada? Do other countries take 3 years to widen 8 km of highway? Same thing with building subways in Toronto. It's a decade long process.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

Why so long? Is it just me or are we horrible with dilly-dallying projects like this in Canada? Do other countries take 3 years to widen 8 km of highway? Same thing with building subways in Toronto. It's a decade long process.

The time consuming part of this process is the structural work. If the Cobourg Creek Bridge didn't need to be widened (and then the existing structure didn't need to be subsequently rehabilitated), it wouldn't take nearly as long.

If it were just grading, and if existing traffic didn't need to maintained, it could be built much faster.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

Why so long? Is it just me or are we horrible with dilly-dallying projects like this in Canada? Do other countries take 3 years to widen 8 km of highway? Same thing with building subways in Toronto. It's a decade long process.

The fastest widening project I've ever seen completed was the recent 6-lane to 8-lane widening of the 417 in 5km of central Ottawa. The entire thing went from start to opening in 25 months, and that included the replacement of almost every structure on the way while keeping all 6 lanes open during peak periods. They were working around the clock to get it done; I drove through there at times like 7am on a Sunday and midnight on a Thursday and there were workers on sight. However, this accelerated schedule cost an extra $20M dollars beyond the normal process. The City of Ottawa covered the difference as it needed the project to be done quickly as part of the LRT work.

We can make projects go faster but it means more disruption and more money.

The Eglinton line under construction in Toronto will ultimately be 8 years from constuction start to construction finish. It could have been less but the disruption required to the street would be too much.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

My reasons for wanting the expansion is because of trucks. I hate driving on a truck-filled highway when there are only two lanes each way. You get stuck behind trucks. Boxed in by trucks. Blocked from passing by passing trucks (those that take eons to overtake the truck in the left lane). Or maybe, having some frustrated trucker riding your ass so he can take out the agony of his job.

Plus there's too many trucks swaying, swerving, and trying to get into your lane while you're passing. The worst trucks are the ones with Quebec plates.

I can't verify this, but I've heard from someone in the know in the trucking industry that there's a lot of drivers coming from overseas that don't have proper qualifications and are automatically getting licensed in Ontario.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Belleville is the only difficult piece of the highway between Kingston and Cobourg; per kilometre, it's probably by far the most expensive to 6-lane. The rest will be fairly simple when the time comes.

I'd really like to see Highway 37 moved to a new alignment further east, and the existing interchange closed (though maintaining the overpass).

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

You forgot the most likely option:
- Do nothing.



In a lot of states, particularly in the south, it is not uncommon to see transport trucks doing 80 MPH on the freeway in the left lane. In fact, in a lot of states, trucks aren't restricted from the left lane of a freeway when there are three or more lanes going in the same direction. It's a very different driving culture.

In most of the states I have been to, there is a left lane truck prohibition on 6 lane freeways (especially in rural areas). In the western states, it is generally not an issue outside of urban areas since there are few rural 6-lane freeways between the Mississippi River and the Sierras.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

In most of the states I have been to, there is a left lane truck prohibition on 6 lane freeways (especially in rural areas). In the western states, it is generally not an issue outside of urban areas since there are few rural 6-lane freeways between the Mississippi River and the Sierras.

That's true in a lot of states, and I think most if not all that border Ontario in the Midwest and Northeast.

I know from experience that in Texas, and I believe several other southern states trucks are allowed to use the left lane on a 6-lane freeway. I was did some light googling to try to look for the exact rules, (I couldn't find them quickly), but it looks like Texas has recently reduced the amount of mileage that trucks are allowed to use the left-most lane:

http://transportationblog.dallasnews...eft-lane.html/

[haljackey]

Tackling the 400/401 interchange in SimCity 4. Still some work to do but I got the connections done.

Location: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.71699...5163695,16.63z