AUSTIN | Project Updates Thread Part II

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by austlar1

The announcement that Waller Place is going to be funded by a VERY DEEP POCKETED investment group known as McCourt Global would seem to be huge news, but there is not much talk about it on the local forums. Looks like Sutton and Co. was able to find some serious money to join (or take over?) their ambitious project for that corner of downtown. If this thing really gets started, it will probably encourage the Fairmont developers to continue with their hotel project.

(1) The McCourt's are a troubled family. I am worried about this union.

(2) Nothing will "encourage" another developer to engage in a project other than a profit line!

(3) I am now beginning to get worried with the volume of hotel rooms in the current pipeline. With CBD office vacancy at 11% (~14% including the U/C Colorado Tower), I'd really like to see a 40+ story office tower or a 60/70+ mixed use tower with retail, residential and office. No more hotels.

Should Austin's CBD become overbuilt with hotel rooms, the rates will decrease. Thus, new CBD lodging investment will wane in the coming decade. I would prefer to see constant and sustained growth.

[MightyYoda]

I think Fairmont is a bit different due to it being a convention center hotel and being almost 3 years out from when it starts. That is enough time for the area to absorb rooms. I do wonder if ZaZa can continue as is though. I don't think you will see any office building proposals until Colorado comes online and people see how quickly it leases space. I do think Seaholm gave a lot of investors confidence in the condo market.

[ATXboom]

Originally Posted by MightyYoda

I think Fairmont is a bit different due to it being a convention center hotel and being almost 3 years out from when it starts. That is enough time for the area to absorb rooms. I do wonder if ZaZa can continue as is though. I don't think you will see any office building proposals until Colorado comes online and people see how quickly it leases space. I do think Seaholm gave a lot of investors confidence in the condo market.

Regarding hotels I also agree Fairmont is unique. The cache and demand for major conventions in Austin is off the charts. This hotel (3 convention hotels necessary) will open Austin to the major league convention circuit which is demanding Austin in volume. I also think there are some niche markets to serve. At the low cost end (see indigo) and boutique (za za). Austin gets young budget sensitive visitors and creative professional visitors looking for a boutique experience.

[lzppjb]

Originally Posted by MightyYoda

I don't think you will see any office building proposals until Colorado comes online and people see how quickly it leases space. I do think Seaholm gave a lot of investors confidence in the condo market.

In addition to the Colorado Tower, we do have the Lincoln office highrise at 5th & Colorado in the works.

[MightyYoda]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

In addition to the Colorado Tower, we do have the Lincoln office highrise at 5th & Colorado in the works.

Very true, I should have been more specific. I meant a large 400+ new Business Office skyscraper.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

(1) The McCourt's are a troubled family. I am worried about this union.

(2) Nothing will "encourage" another developer to engage in a project other than a profit line!

(3) I am now beginning to get worried with the volume of hotel rooms in the current pipeline. With CBD office vacancy at 11% (~14% including the U/C Colorado Tower), I'd really like to see a 40+ story office tower or a 60/70+ mixed use tower with retail, residential and office. No more hotels.

Should Austin's CBD become overbuilt with hotel rooms, the rates will decrease. Thus, new CBD lodging investment will wane in the coming decade. I would prefer to see constant and sustained growth.

I think McCourt's messy divorce is behind him. Guggenheim Partners is still involved with the McCourt Group. Guggenheim adds considerable financial heft ($200 billion under management) to the McCourt Group. Guggenheim is the entity that took over the LA Dodgers from McCourt (with Magic Johnson initially serving as the front man in that investment). Guggenheim Partners previously became investors in the McCourt Group as early as 2007. The LA Times article cited below and the Real Deal article cited below both state that Guggenheim is still involved with McCourt Group.

Frank McCourt was doing well enough on his own in 2013 to make a $100 million dollar gift to Georgetown University. My point about this is simply that Sutton and Co. seems to have attracted investors who can bring more to the table than their previously announced partners up in Fort Worth. I wonder whether Sutton and Co. will remain on board or simply sell out (as you previously suggested, Goldenboot) to the new investors.

I agree that a hotel should probably not be part of this development, but if this development has a substantial office building component, it probably would provide additional business to any Fairmont project that might get built across the street.

http://therealdeal.com/issues_articl...-new-ballgame/

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jun...court-20130613

http://www.thegeorgetowndish.com/the...-policy-school

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by MightyYoda

Very true, I should have been more specific. I meant a large 400+ new Business Office skyscraper.

The office tower at Green is supposed to be 419 feet tall. It'll be the tallest in that development and would be our 2nd tallest office tower. But, I'm with Goldenboot. I would like to see a 40+ story office tower in the 600 to 700 foot range.

[Jdawgboy]

I agree... It's time for Austin to step up it's game with a prominent tall office tower. That will boost our image as a major rising city on the national and global scale. The occupancy rates are there but with these smaller niche office components being added, that could push away the need for a substantial tower for the next couple of years.

I was under the impression that the Green site design is not finalized with all of the towers yet. We could still see a taller office building maybe 450 to 500 foot range.

I would look to Magellan as the next significant player. They may not be saying much right now but you can bet they want to make a visible imprint on the skyline. This is a hot hot hot market and these big companies from two of the skyscraper capitals of the world didn't take a notice in Austin for the novelty factor.

As for Fairmont, I feel 90% better about it now than at the beginning of the month and I have no doubt that the city will easily absorb the rooms. At the rate our convention and tourism sectors are growing and the fact the the JW is booked through 2020, that tells me we still desperately need rooms to keep up with the demand.

It's a race though because these companies know that sooner rather than later the need for more hotels will lessen so basically whoever starts construction first will be the big winner's. The longer these other hotel projects take to get started, the less likely they will happen as other hotel projects will beat them to it. Im referring to ZaZa mainly. As much as Id like to see this project happen what with the great location and all, we still haven't heard a tentative start date.

[KevinFromTexas]

Yeah, they could still be taller. That's just the height they're proposed at so far. The market and the economy will of course dictate the size. Besides, none of the other towers so far have gone through the permitting process, only Block 1.

[the Genral]

[QUOTE=Jdawgboy;6507263]I agree... It's time for Austin to step up it's game with a prominent tall office tower. That will boost our image as a major rising city on the national and global scale. The occupancy rates are there but with these smaller niche office components being added, that could push away the need for a substantial tower for the next couple of years

I've always said Austin lacks a signature tower. Oklahoma City has the 50 story, 833 ft Devon tower. I think it looks completely out of place there, but would fit in nicely in our skyline. I think you are spot on jdawgboy...as long as we absorb our office market with 200 to 400 footers, there's little chance we'll see a supertall here anytime soon. That is unless someone with deep pockets and a huge ego wants to attract tenants by touting the biggest, tallest, and most bad ass building downtown as a reason to sign a lease. I personally think the only way we are going to get an 800 footer, or taller, NOT including a spire, is when we run out of land to build on, with unrestricted height. That could take a while.

[MightyYoda]

I really want a tall signature office tower, but it seems the combination of there aren't many cities building tall office towers since the recession and our lack of companies in the sectors (Banks, Energy, etc...) that would be willing to spend on a large downtown HQ will make the difficult.

Hope I am proven wrong, just not sure who would step up and build a very tall office building right now.

[ATXboom]

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/bl...-saltillo.html

Plaza Saltillo proposals are in... Probably not commitment till end of April. Max of around 900 units.

[KevinFromTexas]

I moved the Aloft Hotel posts to that building's thread here:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=209120

[jngreenlee]

Just saw on Austin360 that Flipnotics is closing down. Sad, but they didn't keep up with the quality coffee everyone seems to be moving up to.

Anyone know if development might be planned for that lot?

I think it has a natural spring on it, which might impede other uses.

[lzppjb]

I'm sure some of y'all have already seen the Dream Dubai Marina, but I finally saw its renderings. It's what Frost could have been. haha



Old article I got the pic from: http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2...it-a-new-high/

[KevinFromTexas]

[smith_atx]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

I'm sure some of y'all have already seen the Dream Dubai Marina, but I finally saw its renderings. It's what Frost could have been. haha

Old article I got the pic from: http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2...it-a-new-high/

Interesting.

It's funny, 5-6 years ago, I was fascinated by all the buildings in Dubai. Now, I mostly despise everything they build. It seems so unnatural.

[migol24]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

I'm sure some of y'all have already seen the Dream Dubai Marina, but I finally saw its renderings. It's what Frost could have been. haha



Old article I got the pic from: http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2...it-a-new-high/

What an ugly design. I am very much happy with the Frost Tower as is now.

[Syndic]

I forgot the name of this office building. Do we have a thread for it? We could/should lump it and the adjacent parking garage development into one thread. Anywho, this is what it looks like today, 3/25:

[The ATX]

The Census Bureau is scheduled to publicly release the 2013 Metro (County) population numbers at 11:00 PM Central time tonight.