[Burnaby] The Amazing Brentwood | 15 Towers | 186m | 56 flrs | U/C & Proposed

[AudiA3]

What's insane though... The maintenance fee is expected to be at $0.49/sqft.. That's the highest I've ever heard.... That means even for a 732sqft 2bdr, its going to cost $355/month!!!

[VanK]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Skytrain station=easy renting. It's a great central location, better than Metrotown.

I don't know if that is a fair comment. In my opinion I would much rather live at Metrotown and am willing to pay more for Metrotown. It is all relative and based on personal opinion. Metrotown prices command a good $50 - $75/ PSF more than Brentwood & pre-sales velocity is much faster in Metrotown. In addition, there is a MASSIVE pipeline of future inventory in Brentwood vs a more controlled supply in the Metrotown area.

[jb1969]

Originally Posted by VanK

I don't know if that is a fair comment. In my opinion I would much rather live at Metrotown and am willing to pay more for Metrotown. It is all relative and based on personal opinion. Metrotown prices command a good $50 - $75/ PSF more than Brentwood & pre-sales velocity is much faster in Metrotown. In addition, there is a MASSIVE pipeline of future inventory in Brentwood vs a more controlled supply in the Metrotown area.

Where you choose to buy is definitely a very personal choice. however the thought that there is a massive pipeline of inventory in Brentwood but not Metrotown in incorrect. Consider that there will be another 4 towers coming at Station Square, there is currently a proposal for 10 towers on the Sear property, along with a number of other projects in various stages of approval in the immediate area. And as for the purchaser numbers, by far the majority of purchasers in the metrotown area are and have been investors (dare I say speculators) and the majority in Brentwood are owner occupiers. At least that has been the historic purchaser profile in the Brentwood area. Remember one developer in charge of 10 towers will only develop as the market permits. Many developers will rush to beat the others to the punch.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by VanK

I don't know if that is a fair comment. In my opinion I would much rather live at Metrotown and am willing to pay more for Metrotown. It is all relative and based on personal opinion. Metrotown prices command a good $50 - $75/ PSF more than Brentwood & pre-sales velocity is much faster in Metrotown. In addition, there is a MASSIVE pipeline of future inventory in Brentwood vs a more controlled supply in the Metrotown area.

You can prefer to live in Metrotown but it would be crazy to argue Brentwood isn't better situated geographically for the majority of Vancouverites. It also feels like a nicer area, to me at least. I almost chose it over North Van and often wish I had.

[VanK]

Originally Posted by jb1969

Where you choose to buy is definitely a very personal choice. however the thought that there is a massive pipeline of inventory in Brentwood but not Metrotown in incorrect. Consider that there will be another 4 towers coming at Station Square, there is currently a proposal for 10 towers on the Sear property, along with a number of other projects in various stages of approval in the immediate area. And as for the purchaser numbers, by far the majority of purchasers in the metrotown area are and have been investors (dare I say speculators) and the majority in Brentwood are owner occupiers. At least that has been the historic purchaser profile in the Brentwood area. Remember one developer in charge of 10 towers will only develop as the market permits. Many developers will rush to beat the others to the punch.

There is a lot of product in the pipeline at Metrotown with more to come but when comparing amount of product + absorptions at Metrotown vs Brentwood, Metrotown is a safer bet in my opinion.

FYI: the proposal for Sears is 5 residential towers + 2 office towers (not 10 towers) & the Sears site is no where near being close to commencing as there are leasing & easement issues that need to be sorted out. Station Square's 4 towers will be absorbed quickly. There are a few other 1-off towers (Polygon's Aldynne) + in the approval process by Polygon, Intergulf & Rize.

Brentwood Mall on the other hand has 4,000,000 SF of residential density & depending on how they cut it, approx. 12+ towers. Onni's Gilmore Station site has the potential for 2,500,000 SF of residential density which could be about 9 res towers + Concord's site on the South side of Lougheed (East of Beta) is large enough for aprox 2,000,000 SF of residential = 7 towers. This is also on top of the other Solo District towers, the second Aviara tower, Millennium's tower & a few other one-off towers.

[AudiA3]

the maintenance fee is way too high for the Amazing Brenwood tower

[VanK]

Originally Posted by Pinion

You can prefer to live in Metrotown but it would be crazy to argue Brentwood isn't better situated geographically for the majority of Vancouverites. It also feels like a nicer area, to me at least. I almost chose it over North Van and often wish I had.

Brentwood does have a nicer residential feel and some prefer Brentwood. The fact however is that the majority of today's buyer (Asian - Chinese) value Metrotown's location more than Brentwood due to closer proximity to Richmond, Central Park & Metrotown's shopping amenities.

[GMasterAres]

I'm not following how Brentwood is more central compared to Metrotown.

To me Metrotown is about as central as you can get.

1. Faster to downtown (no transfers)
2. Same time to UBC basically though from Metrotown you have more options (aka Joyce, Nanaimo, Downtown busses)
3. Faster to New Westminster
4. Faster to Surrey
6. Faster to Richmond
7. With Evergreen still have access though slower and not direct to Coquitlam

And that's just looking at transit. From a road standpoint, it is a little further but no hugely so from HWY1, but quicker to the above mentioned cities and quicker to YVR, Alex Fraser, etc.

Brentwood on the other hand is currently closer to only the North Shore and SFU generally. I guess you could argue Coquitlam but once you're on HWY1, it is quicker to Coquitlam than trucking along Lougheed most of the day so they're both pretty much the same.

I guess Brentwood in the future after Broadway SkyTrain extension will also be easier to UBC with no transfers whereas on Expo from Metrotown you would need to transfer trains. Time wise though will be abouts the same imho.

49 cents a square foot is ridiculously high for maintenance though. I mean are they laying down platinum and diamond tiles in the lobby or something? Given the typically higher price for the units themselves due to location, you add that maintenance in there and it is even more unaffordable than much of the region. My only guess is they are purely catering to wealthy or well off individuals. I dunno seems crazy. I thought my maintenance fees were high at 29 cents a square foot.

What is the average in Yaletown or Metrotown?

I could be clueless and 49 cents is actually norm.

*shrug*

[officedweller]

In terms of driving -
Brentwood is far easier to access from Downtown Vancouver - just take 1st Ave.
For Metrotown, you have to deal with Kingsway.

[Pinion]

Jhauser: same old "the centre of town is in the northwest corner" discussion. No one cares about being closer to Langley. Plus having the highway right there allows you to make up the time regardless.

[Cypherus]

If you're talking about views, Metrotown wins in that department over Brentwood which is situated in a lower valley. I agree however that Metrotown is not easily accessible by roadway - skytrain access and the growing Chinese community being the sole driver of development in that area. However, this tower would liven up Brentwood and make the location unique on its own. Having 3 visible downtown cores in the next 10 years would make Vancouver look like it's in Beast mode.

[Laniatus]

wow 0.49/sqft?

I thought solo district was high at 0.43/sqft even though they tell you the extra cost is for the geothermal system

Are the brentwood towers going to have geothermal system?

I wonder if Shape Properties will be paying out at that same rate for all their rental units they will own.

[jb1969]

I believe the strata fees for the buildings in the area are
Aviara $0.38/ sqft
Stratus $0.41/ sqft
Altus $0.39/sqft
Brentwood One $0.50/sqft

Aviara has no AC but electric baseboard heating instead, same with Bentwood, so heating costs are above strata fees. Solo District has the AC heating and cooling combined with geothermal, which is included in the strata fees.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jb1969

I believe the strata fees for the buildings in the area are
Aviara $0.38/ sqft
Stratus $0.41/ sqft
Altus $0.39/sqft
Brentwood One $0.50/sqft

Aviara has no AC but electric baseboard heating instead, same with Bentwood, so heating costs are above strata fees. Solo District has the AC heating and cooling combined with geothermal, which is included in the strata fees.

Those are huge when you consider there's often big increases in the first 3-5 years.

For comparison my rental in Yaletown started at $0.21 in 2000 and jumped to around $0.35 a few years in, then settled and is now $0.48. This includes gas, hot water, and a pool in the building, which is a notoriously expensive amenity.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

This includes gas, hot water, and a pool in the building, which is a notoriously expensive amenity.

I have known a few people who have lived in towers with indoor pools and they have generally agreed that they are an expensive amenity, but nice to have if you make a point of using it regularly as part of one's daily or weekly routine. One friend in Toronto even made a point of buying in a building with a pool since she enjoys doing laps and swam regularly at a community centre, but based on her strata fees she is convinced that her pool must be heated by shovelling bundles of cash into a furnace somewhere deep in the building.

[jlousa]

$.49/psf might seem high but it's not too out of line with most buildings over time. A lot of buildings used to advertise unrealistically low strata fees which would need to shot up in the first few years to cover expenses. The fact most new buildings are starting with the real rates will negate the huge initial jump in rates and should allow them to increase at roughly the rate of inflation. I'm sure we're seeing this change due to recent changes to legislation and the requirement for depreciation reports and showing that the capital fund will account for those costs.

About pools, I've always heard it stated that's it's the first amenity an owner brags about, but it's the amenity they use the least.

[Pinion]

My crappy old building with no amenities is about $.53. It was half that in 2005 when we moved in.

[Laniatus]

Originally Posted by jlousa

$.49/psf might seem high but it's not too out of line with most buildings over time. A lot of buildings used to advertise unrealistically low strata fees which would need to shot up in the first few years to cover expenses. The fact most new buildings are starting with the real rates will negate the huge initial jump in rates and should allow them to increase at roughly the rate of inflation. I'm sure we're seeing this change due to recent changes to legislation and the requirement for depreciation reports and showing that the capital fund will account for those costs.

About pools, I've always heard it stated that's it's the first amenity an owner brags about, but it's the amenity they use the least.

I feel like developers should be liable for the extra costs when a building's expenses far exceed the proposed budget in the first few years requiring a doubling of strata fees...

[AudiA3]

Oh wow... But this condo starts from $0.49, so it might skyrocket even higher after some number of years. That's bad...

It wont even have swimming pool...

[Genauso]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Jhauser: same old "the centre of town is in the northwest corner" discussion. No one cares about being closer to Langley. Plus having the highway right there allows you to make up the time regardless.

Closer to North Van is a huge plus, it's really the one thing that makes it worth living in Vancouver. The one hangup is needing to make a day of it because of bridge traffic. Speaking of which, avoiding the traffic of long distance commuters and escaping bottle necks is another big plus. Brentwood should be fine, it might take time to fill in but Burnaby seems to know how to handle big towers surrounded by single family homes.

Thanks for all the other comments about strata fees. A colleague renovated his house with geothermal and it just makes sense year round when it pencils out. I always felt it was an overlooked but worthwhile investment when LEED was in all projects' marketing material.