Highways in Canada

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by vid

University was built as a wide, tree lined and divided street from the start, and even though it is wide, it is lined with historic buildings. I can't think of any streets in Montreal that were built like that but I'm sure they exist.

I take it Vid that you've never actually been to University Ave. Beyond Osgoode Hall and Canada Life, across from each other at Queen St., there isn't anything remotely resembling an historic building until you reach Queens Park. It's one of the most boring stretches of street that you'll find anywhere. I don't think that there's a single restaurant, patio or anything to break up the monotony of crapitecture and hospitals between Osgoode Hall and Queens Park, not even a shitty little Tim Horton's. You have to practically run across the street to beat the lights, and the centre median is full of homeless dudes and fountains that haven't worked for 3 years. Not that chilling out between 8 lanes of traffic is a particularly appealing prospect to begin with.

I can't be bothered uploading photos but here are a few quickie results from a "University Avenue Toronto history" search. You're correct about the tree lined and I guess that if "28 feet" in 1930 is to be considered "wide and divided"...

I don't know how this became Toronto vs Montréal because I certainly never intended it to be. Montréal has certainly fucked up as much as Toronto has and maybe more.

Perhaps you Vid should get off your fucking computer and actually go somewhere sometime. You're a smart guy but there's only so much you can learn while sitting on your ass surfing the net. If you haven't experienced something 'live' then really, you have nothing to contribute beyond the same shit that we can all look up on the interweb. I can look up all I want about Istanbul but since I've never been there, I don't actually know fuck all about it. And I never will, unless I see it for myself.

Oh so wide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UniversityAvenueToronto1900s.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:U..._from_Queen%27s_Park_to_Bloor_Street.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/torontohistory/4660928394/in/photostream/

[haljackey]

Here's a video I made of Highway 402 and the Bluewater Bridge in Sarnia, Ontario. The grass median in the middle of the freeway is now completely gone.


• Video Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxJsKZIdCO8

[ssiguy]

Great vid, thanks!

[niwell]

Originally Posted by habfanman

I take it Vid that you've never actually been to University Ave. Beyond Osgoode Hall and Canada Life, across from each other at Queen St., there isn't anything remotely resembling an historic building until you reach Queens Park. It's one of the most boring stretches of street that you'll find anywhere. I don't think that there's a single restaurant, patio or anything to break up the monotony of crapitecture and hospitals between Osgoode Hall and Queens Park, not even a shitty little Tim Horton's. You have to practically run across the street to beat the lights, and the centre median is full of homeless dudes and fountains that haven't worked for 3 years. Not that chilling out between 8 lanes of traffic is a particularly appealing prospect to begin with.

I can't be bothered uploading photos but here are a few quickie results from a "University Avenue Toronto history" search. You're correct about the tree lined and I guess that if "28 feet" in 1930 is to be considered "wide and divided"...

Actually instead of attacking Vid you might want to read up on your history a bit more. University between Queen St and Queens Park (fyi 2 of the pics you linked to are north of this stretch) has always been as wide as it is. The original configuration was a toll road next to an open public roadway. Not sure how that worked in practice but it resulted in the width we have today. This was reconfigured according to the "city beautiful" movement in the 20s/30s when the street was extended south (where it narrows) to Front st. It's really not the same as blvd Rene Levesque which did take out hundreds of buildings during its widening.

And I know your blind hatred of Toronto allows you to say nothing good about the city but the gardens along the avenue are looking better than I've ever seen them. It's a shame the one fountain at Queen is temporarily decomissioned but it really isn't the end of the world.

And no historic buildings? Really? The street features some excellent examples of modernist and international style office buildings. As well as quite a few buildings dating from the 30s/40s and the historic military institute. It's not the most exciting street, but it really doesn't need to be as there is plenty nearby. Honestly of all things in Toronto to hate on (there are plenty) University Ave is a pretty baffling choice.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by habfanman

You know, If all of our cities were as dense as you are, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just thinking about how much time you've probably spent on Google street view makes me weep.

When I'm in Montreal I never bother snapping shots of the blighted suburban streets because they're not even worthy of the space they take up on my SD card. There are many more deserving photos. Google street view is a handy tool for pointing out areas where you've traveled but never bothered to take a picture (eg the Oxford/Wonderland intersection in London, which rivals some of Montreal's most depressing landscapes). I tend to spend my life doing more productive things.

Originally Posted by habfanman

For the record, since you don't seem to comprehend, all of our cities INCLUDING Montréal, have far too many, too wide roads. By providing proper transit we could relieve the pressure and maybe even reduce highway capacity. I'm not picking on Toronto, Montréal is just as bad.

While it is true that a lot of major cities feature wide roadways, you originally started this argument by attacking Toronto for having too many wide streets. That would be fine if you always mentioned that it was a common pitfall, but you don't. Frequently, you're on this forum gloating about how Montreal has such great transit, how Montreal has such great bike lanes, how Montreal is so good for pedestrians, how Montreal is so wonderful and how Toronto is such a nasty, horrible, sterile place bereft of any culture and choked with automobile traffic... often without mentioning shared planning mistakes at all! I may still think Toronto is an arrogant hellhole, but your blind one-sided hatred of the place disturbs me.

Originally Posted by habfanman

Now take your time.. reread what I just typed.. I'll give you a few moments..

I assure you, your comments were every bit as asinine on the second reading as they were on the first.

Originally Posted by habfanman

Now here's a tough one: If University was built before the advent of the automobile, do you think that it was originally built as an 8 lane thoroughfare (to accommodate truly epic amounts of late 19th century horse traffic? Rolling felled trees sideways from Queen's Park to the lake? Chariot races?) or might it have been systematically widened over the years, wiping out whatever neighbourhoods existed at the time, to accommodate cars? (as also happened in Montréal.. GOT IT? UNDERSTAND? Not picking on Toronto. Montréal made the same mistakes. Are you comprehending?) Now, reread that bit.. read it again.. has it sunk in? Would you like to call a friend or ask the audience?

Try setting Google street view to 1890 and maybe you'll find the answer.

The allowance for University Avenue has always been unusually wide, looking at just about any historical map of Toronto should confirm this. If you ever bother to get your hands on a proper, drawn-to-scale map, you'll notice that even in the early 20th century (long before automobiles were even remotely commonplace) the roadway was about twice as wide as the other downtown throughfares.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Here's a video I made of Highway 402 and the Bluewater Bridge in Sarnia, Ontario. The grass median in the middle of the freeway is now completely gone.

Now back to highways. When did they get rid of the grass strip? I was in Sarnia not too long ago, and I think they still had it.

[sonysnob]

Toll Schedule for the new Autoroute 25 bridge linking eastern Montreal to eastern Laval


Photo taken by me in July.

[Dwils01]

Heres some pictures I took of Hwy 69 just south of Sudbury. Hwy 400 will eventually connect to Sudbury once the 120km section of road between Sudbury and Nobel is divided.






Divided highway ends about 25km south of Sudbury.


Hwy 400 begins about 20km north of Parry Sound.


http://s1128.photobucket.com/albums/m498/DWils01/Sault%20Ste%20Marie%20to%20Hamilton/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Toll Schedule for the new Autoroute 25 bridge linking eastern Montreal to eastern Laval


Photo taken by me in July.

I have noticed that Quebec is moving to the Clearview font for its new highway signs. Most of them are currently Highway Gothic (the general standard in North America for several decades). It's a very gradual process, and I'd say there will be Highway Gothic signs for many years to come or even decades in Quebec.

Here is the difference - Highway Gothic on the left, Clearview on the right:

http://telstarlogistics.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/12/twosigns.jpg

[softee]

Originally Posted by habfanman

I don't think that there's a single restaurant, patio or anything to break up the monotony of crapitecture and hospitals between Osgoode Hall and Queens Park, not even a shitty little Tim Horton's.

I actually enjoy walking down University, Ave. It has a "grandness" to it that can't be found anywhere else in the city. Yeah, it's kinda sterile, but there are more than a few nice, older buildings and there are indeed a number of restaurants along the stretch - not a lot, mind you - but they are there.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have noticed that Quebec is moving to the Clearview font for its new highway signs. Most of them are currently Highway Gothic (the general standard in North America for several decades). It's a very gradual process, and I'd say there will be Highway Gothic signs for many years to come or even decades in Quebec.

Here is the difference - Highway Gothic on the left, Clearview on the right:

http://telstarlogistics.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/12/twosigns.jpg

Wow, subtle until you compare the 2. It's surprising how minor changes can improve readability (especially from afar).

Now if only my French could keep up with all the new words invented as technology progresses, I could navigate with ease!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Wow, subtle until you compare the 2. It's surprising how minor changes can improve readability (especially from afar).

Now if only my French could keep up with all the new words invented as technology progresses, I could navigate with ease!

Sorry to break this to you, mon ami, but at least as far as the picture posted previously is concerned, there are no neologisms on there except for transpondeur... . Which is pretty easy to figure out if you know what a transponder is in English.

I guess the most complicated/non-intuitive words for an anglo on the sign that is pictured would probably be essieu (axle) and péage (toll), but these words have actually been around for several hundred years...

[freeweed]

That's why I said "as technology progresses". Who knows what fun will come up in the future.

Yeah, I'm being philosophical. I just re-discovered the other day how many languages use the word "computer" as is - I always thought everyone had their own word for it. Plus hundreds of other tech-related terms. Just surprises me how much English is becoming a "loan word" source.

[Joshy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have noticed that Quebec is moving to the Clearview font for its new highway signs. Most of them are currently Highway Gothic (the general standard in North America for several decades). It's a very gradual process, and I'd say there will be Highway Gothic signs for many years to come or even decades in Quebec.

Here is the difference - Highway Gothic on the left, Clearview on the right:

http://telstarlogistics.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/12/twosigns.jpg

I was gonna ask about the difference between the two fonts and why they are changing them, but I honestly thought I was the only one in the world who noticed or cared about the change.

Anyways, I prefer the gothic. I prefer the way the letters are written and displayed on the signs, whereas this new font just seems so plain. Too bad they are killing off the goth.

Oh, and btw, it seems that BC signs have a completely different font on their traffic signs from the rest of NA, outside of the lower mainland.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Joshy

I was gonna ask about the difference between the two fonts and why they are changing them, but I honestly thought I was the only one in the world who noticed or cared about the change.

Anyways, I prefer the gothic. I prefer the way the letters are written and displayed on the signs, whereas this new font just seems so plain. Too bad they are killing off the goth.

I'd say FHWA Highway Gothic will still be around for a long time. It is not totally absent from Ontario highways but it is still a very rare sight.

Even in Quebec, although the province is certainly transitioning to Clearview, a few weeks ago a new section of Autoroute 50 between Gatineau and Montreal opened with all FHWA Highway Gothic signage. I guess the signs for this stretch had been made a few years ago (before the decision to go to Clearview), and they didn't want to waste perfectly good signs. They are expensive after all...

[cormiermax]

You know iv never really understood why Canada always seems to follow the US when it comes to the style of its highways. For example, Clearview was developed by the US for its highways, why doesn't Canada develop its own typeface? The same can be said generally for signage, road paint, etc.

[Joshy]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

You know iv never really understood why Canada always seems to follow the US when it comes to the style of its highways. For example, Clearview was developed by the US for its highways, why doesn't Canada develop its own typeface? The same can be said generally for signage, road paint, etc.

Continental Continuity?

[Andy6]

We could use Comic Sans. Or maybe Fraktur.

[vid]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

You know iv never really understood why Canada always seems to follow the US when it comes to the style of its highways. For example, Clearview was developed by the US for its highways, why doesn't Canada develop its own typeface? The same can be said generally for signage, road paint, etc.

It's less expensive, and better to have a standard for the continent. If we had unique signage, we would have to learn American signs in addition to our own.

[dsim249]

Originally Posted by Andy6

We could use Comic Sans. Or maybe Fraktur.

This made me laugh a lot more than it probably should have.