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  #341  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 6:55 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
^ the number of seats isn't as important as the price you can sell the seat for.
Yes and no. From a maximizing game day ticket revenue pov you're right but making the team accessible is also important. If fans get priced out of ever attending games due to scarcity of seats/high prices some will eventually move on to other sports and other leagues.

When that happens the tv audience declines, merchandise sales decline, and competition from other entertainment options intensifies. If it's allowed to continue for a generation the sporting culture of a city can change.

This has happened to the Leafs (and hockey) in Toronto. With just 1 team for 9 million people in the Greater Golden Horseshoe people who may have become fans never gave the Leafs or the NHL a try. Some who were already fans got fed up of being shut out and moved on to something else. They're not coming back.... EVER.
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  #342  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jawagord View Post
Like the $300 million Neshi spent on the airport tunnel to nowhere, when there is perfectly good access 1 km north on Country Hills Blvd? Or the $250 million on the new library, just what Calgary needed in the digital age another 240,000 sq. ft. of premium space in the downtown.
And what corporation reaps massive profits off either of these?
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  #343  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
They're not coming back.... EVER.

I came back as a lot of other people I know have well.
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  #344  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 8:48 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Yes and no. From a maximizing game day ticket revenue pov you're right but making the team accessible is also important. If fans get priced out of ever attending games due to scarcity of seats/high prices some will eventually move on to other sports and other leagues.

When that happens the tv audience declines, merchandise sales decline, and competition from other entertainment options intensifies. If it's allowed to continue for a generation the sporting culture of a city can change.

This has happened to the Leafs (and hockey) in Toronto. With just 1 team for 9 million people in the Greater Golden Horseshoe people who may have become fans never gave the Leafs or the NHL a try. Some who were already fans got fed up of being shut out and moved on to something else. They're not coming back.... EVER.
This. I don't understand the (seemingly dominant) position on here that ticket scarcity is a good thing. You actually want it to be hard to get access to your sports teams? I get that fuller venues are more fun than emptier ones but just downsizing the venue until it hits its regular guests target, or even its max profit target, just seems like a race to the bottom for sports fandom. Why are people so concerned about how much money the team owners make?

I get that it can be a problem in the CFL where we want our teams to be healthy, but I think if you built the Lions a smaller stadium, nothing would change. Hell, you can see that with the Argonauts now.
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  #345  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
This. I don't understand the (seemingly dominant) position on here that ticket scarcity is a good thing. You actually want it to be hard to get access to your sports teams? I get that fuller venues are more fun than emptier ones but just downsizing the venue until it hits its regular guests target, or even its max profit target, just seems like a race to the bottom for sports fandom. Why are people so concerned about how much money the team owners make?

I get that it can be a problem in the CFL where we want our teams to be healthy, but I think if you built the Lions a smaller stadium, nothing would change. Hell, you can see that with the Argonauts now.
Because the bottom line is the whole purpose for professional sports. Maximizing revenue ultimately decided whether your team stays or goes.
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  #346  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 9:36 PM
osmo osmo is offline
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Yes and no. From a maximizing game day ticket revenue pov you're right but making the team accessible is also important. If fans get priced out of ever attending games due to scarcity of seats/high prices some will eventually move on to other sports and other leagues.

When that happens the tv audience declines, merchandise sales decline, and competition from other entertainment options intensifies. If it's allowed to continue for a generation the sporting culture of a city can change.

This has happened to the Leafs (and hockey) in Toronto. With just 1 team for 9 million people in the Greater Golden Horseshoe people who may have become fans never gave the Leafs or the NHL a try. Some who were already fans got fed up of being shut out and moved on to something else. They're not coming back.... EVER.
Leafs fandom is still sky high here in Toronto even with many fans not able to set foot in the building to watch a game. The Leaf machine is something else as I have never seen a market, to put up with such a crappy team with cost hurdles in the place like the Leafs. The Leafs still have hundreds of thousands of willing fans who would go to the games if they could. Even the season prior to last year with the rebuild, not like the Leafs lost money from the gate, it is just many season ticket holder just didn't waste their time to go to games. That was the first season many new fans were able to set foot into the building to watch a regular season Leafs game. Many of these new fans were in shock at the prices inside the building compared to the Gardens where they likely saw a game the last time.

Leafs get bailed out because they have a history of tight supply with tickets going back to the Garden. Many Season Seats are held in families or arrangements between parties and folks just accept that.

The Raptors are just as tight to get into for games, 5-6 year waiting list for Season Seats and yet fans still go.

The move in sports is to cater to the premium buyer versus going off the volume. You can make money off premium ticket holders while offering freebies and cheapies to kids, and families to still keep them in the mix to keep the fanbase alive and going. This all works it better versus going for volume and having to affordable options for the working Joe Six Pack.

Where folks start getting angry is with food and beverages. There is a price peak you can charge for a hot dog and some teams have tried to push it with push back. The irony is that many premium options have the biggest discounts as teams can't justify charging the real price. For example, the ACC rib sandwich has been a staple since the old Hot Stove days and the real price of those sandwiches is around $36.00. The Leafs only charge around $24 for it because nobody would pay $36 for a sandwich, especially premium seat holders that just put down $300 for a seat to the game. The use it as a loss leader though as those folks will load up on high-priced wines and drinks and other premium options.
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  #347  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2017, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by optimusREIM View Post
Because the bottom line is the whole purpose for professional sports. Maximizing revenue ultimately decided whether your team stays or goes.
I think sports teams do fine just about everywhere in Canada. With regards to the Senators, they're not gonna leave if you build a 21,000 seat arena as opposed to one with 17,000 seats.
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  #348  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 1:05 PM
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Flames release details on their arena proposal

https://www.nhl.com/flames/fans/arena
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  #349  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 1:25 PM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
Leafs fandom is still sky high here in Toronto even with many fans not able to set foot in the building to watch a game. The Leaf machine is something else as I have never seen a market, to put up with such a crappy team with cost hurdles in the place like the Leafs. The Leafs still have hundreds of thousands of willing fans who would go to the games if they could. Even the season prior to last year with the rebuild, not like the Leafs lost money from the gate, .
This is definitely true.

I'd say the Habs fandom is equal or greater to that of the Leafs at the moment but the Habs have also been much better and more competitive in recent years than the Leafs have. I really don't think that the Habs would be where the Leafs are right now fan-wise (which is to say still extremely strong) had they been so bad for so many generations.

If the Leafs actually become a true contender - watch out.
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  #350  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot View Post
Flames release details on their arena proposal

https://www.nhl.com/flames/fans/arena
Incredible... It's like it was written by a 3 year old doing a temper tantrum, unbelievable. No class whatsoever.
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  #351  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 2:26 PM
king10 king10 is offline
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Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
Incredible... It's like it was written by a 3 year old doing a temper tantrum, unbelievable. No class whatsoever.
wow. What a bunch of losers. if they can find a better deal somewhere else pack up and leave.

there will be a slew of wealthy investors looking to move a team back to Calgary right away.

As a result, after over two years of discussions, we see absolutely no basis upon which a new arena agreement can be achieved with the City, and we have concluded that there is no point to continue the pursuit of a new arena in Calgary.

sounds like a bitter ex gf lol
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  #352  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 2:36 PM
osmo osmo is offline
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Good on Calgary not bending over for the Flames.
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  #353  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by king10 View Post
wow. What a bunch of losers. if they can find a better deal somewhere else pack up and leave.

there will be a slew of wealthy investors looking to move a team back to Calgary right away.

As a result, after over two years of discussions, we see absolutely no basis upon which a new arena agreement can be achieved with the City, and we have concluded that there is no point to continue the pursuit of a new arena in Calgary.

sounds like a bitter ex gf lol
It's really weird that most of the news is branding this is a proposal when really it's an anti-proposal and a threat if anything else.
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  #354  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 3:05 PM
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Looks like the link on the Flames site is already down. Maybe they saw the early backlash?
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  #355  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 3:22 PM
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You'd think for an operation that has been going for 34 years, the Flames would have a better sense of how not to stumble from PR blunder to PR blunder.

The team calls the city out.

The city (understandably) releases their reasonable proposal, that the Flames knew about.

The Flames throw a hissy fit, release statement that claims they're philanthropists, they're getting screwed, could make money elsewhere.

The Flames then release a pie-in-the-sky budget that involves them paying no property taxes, getting 45% government funding for an arena they won't have to deal with when they're bored of it in 25 years. They include snarky commentary in it, just for good measure.

They pull down their proposal off the NHL's website (?), despite it being already reported in the media.

This is genius stuff.
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  #356  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 3:52 PM
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WOW! They pulled that website down. Who is managing the flames? Donald Trump?
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  #357  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 4:12 PM
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There's still a PDF version of it on the site

https://nhl.bamcontent.com/images/as...-file/file.pdf
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  #358  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 4:17 PM
osmo osmo is offline
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The rookie hour with the Flames Organization. It is easy to see now why they are tripping over this arena situation with such silly people internally running things. The website PR blunder is just another stumble the Flames have been suffering.


I expect and hope that somebody screenshot/archived that web page.
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  #359  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 4:25 PM
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It was just a very lazily, and hastily, put together piece of garbage. I'd bet the guy in charge is so lazy he doesn't even bother with tying his tie... oh waiit...
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  #360  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2017, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
It was just a very lazily, and hastily, put together piece of garbage. I'd bet the guy in charge is so lazy he doesn't even bother with tying his tie... oh waiit...
Burke is in charge of running the team, he doesn't really have much involvement with the arena. This is all Ken King, the new arena is his baby.
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