Canadian Airport Thread II

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

AF's seasonal YQB-CDG next year will feature the 472 seat HD 77W: https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/231221-afns24inc. However, Aeroroutes is saying the route is starting 6 weeks later on 14JUN24 (no idea if that's vs last summer or vs what was originally loaded for summer 2024).

YUL-CDG creeping back closer to 4x daily with a frequency bump from 21 to 24 weekly.

It’s vs. last summer. The route resumed on May 2nd during S23.

YUL was supposed to go 4 daily in peak summer this year as well, but they canceled those plans just before S23 began. So this is their second attempt, post-Covid that is. Let’s see if it sticks this time.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230310-afns23inc

[Alexcaban]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

It’s vs. last summer. The route resumed on May 2nd during S23.

YUL was supposed to go 4 daily in peak summer this year as well, but they canceled those plans just before S23 began. So this is their second attempt, post-Covid that is. Let’s see if it sticks this time.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230310-afns23inc

Air France was 24 weekly this summer as well. It would be nice to have them go 4 daily. Unlikely now with all the AC additions to Europe. The need to connect at CDG is unnecessary

[YYCguys]

Happy Holidays to One and All! May your time be filled with joy and love! All the best to you and your loved ones! See you in the New Year!

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by mxg308

It appears that YOW-CDG is going daily starting October 27th on the 787. Appears bookable on the airfrance website.

Let’s see if they add additional summer 2024 capacity as they gradually upload their summer schedule.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

Happy Holidays to One and All! May your time be filled with joy and love! All the best to you and your loved ones! See you in the New Year!

You as well

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Let’s see if they add additional summer 2024 capacity as they gradually upload their summer schedule.

Seems like AC's tactics have failed. For those who don't know, AC was offering dirt cheap fares between YOW-CDG via YUL/YYZ. ONLY from YOW. We're talking $380 round trip fares. They deprive an entire city of direct flights to Europe, have their CDG pax from YOW pretty much evaporate, and instead of actually reinstating European flights from YOW, they dropped their price to the point where they would be losing money and expected potential customers to bite. Clearly AC wants their flights filling in YUL and YYZ, nothing more, nothing less. It has failed, evident by the fact AF is planning an increase to daily from 5x weekly.

They have also retreated and yielded a big chunk of what they have offered pre-pandemic from YOW to other carriers. I bet someone somewhere in AC's network team is baffled by why YOW pax are choosing direct with other carriers, and in many cases, paying premium for direct instead of complying with their YYZ and YUL funnelling. The byproduct of being shafted for so many years. No one tell them though, let them figure it out for themselves

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Seems like AC's tactics have failed.

AC posted a 22.3% operating margin last quarter, and huge profits to go along with it. That's unheard of, and their numbers were one of the best in the industry in Q3. Those insanely positive numbers are a direct result of their strategy of leveraging their 3 main hubs before anything else these last 3 years. They are not failing. Quite the contrary.

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

They have also retreated and yielded a big chunk of what they have offered pre-pandemic from YOW to other carriers. I bet someone somewhere in AC's network team is baffled by why YOW pax are choosing direct with other carriers, and in many cases, paying premium for direct instead of complying with their YYZ and YUL funnelling. The byproduct of being shafted for so many years. No one tell them though, let them figure it out for themselves

Pretty sure AC knows exactly what they are doing at YOW, and the repercussions of those decisions. Pretty sure nothing has surprised them about YOW so far, least of which another TATL carrier picking up some slack at YOW, and being successful.

Don't forget, AC still has a majority of seat capacity out of YOW, and a loyal aeroplan following. That crowd isn't going anywhere. AC will add TATL capacity at YOW with the arrival of the XLR's. Until then, they believe they can serve the YOW market effectively through YYZ/YUL. One foreign carrier starting service to YOW will not change that. As for PD, we don't know their rapid expansion strategy will work, and all signs point to them bleeding an insane amount of cash at the moment. Something will have to give. And it won't be AC.

[thenoflyzone]

YUL posted November 2023 numbers. First percentage is Y.O.Y increase, second percentage in parenthesis is vs. same month in 2019.

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...ats_nov_EN.pdf

Total: 1,489,578 +13.4% (+9.2%)

Domestic: 467,182 +3.8% (-10.0%)
Transborder: 373,041 +16.3% (+9.9%)
International: 649,355 +19.5% (+28.4%)

YTD total: 19,460,621 +34.2% (+3.9%)

Domestic numbers took a November nosedive ! Based on that, YUL should finish the year with around 21.1 million passengers, assuming an ~11% Y.O.Y increase in December. Hopefully the increase will be more along the lines of 13% or more, so we can hit 21.2 or 21.3 million passengers. Let's see what December has in store !

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

AC posted a 22.3% operating margin last quarter, and huge profits to go along with it. That's unheard of, and their numbers were one of the best in the industry in Q3. Those insanely positive numbers are a direct result of their strategy of leveraging their 3 main hubs before anything else these last 3 years. They are not failing. Quite the contrary.



Pretty sure AC knows exactly what they are doing at YOW, and the repercussions of those decisions. Pretty sure nothing has surprised them about YOW so far, least of which another TATL carrier picking up some slack at YOW, and being successful.

Don't forget, AC still has a majority of seat capacity out of YOW, and a loyal aeroplan following. That crowd isn't going anywhere. AC will add TATL capacity at YOW with the arrival of the XLR's. Until then, they believe they can serve the YOW market effectively through YYZ/YUL. One foreign carrier starting service to YOW will not change that. As for PD, we don't know their rapid expansion strategy will work, and all signs point to them bleeding an insane amount of cash at the moment. Something will have to give. And it won't be AC.

Where in my comment did I say AC is a failure as a whole? I don't give a toss about their profits. They clearly had something to say over AF's YOW-CDG and if they didn't care, they wouldn't have priced their round trips so aggressively at $380 specifically from YOW was my point. Their goal was to capture back the pax they lost and to hinder AF. I said they failed in this regard and I stand behind that statement with the introduction of AF increasing capacity (not officially announced but bookable). Anecdotally, I know a few Aeroplan collectors who have since stopped caring thanks to PD and Flying Blue. Are they the only ones in this entire city switching teams? Pretty amazing coincidence then that I know them all. They can wait for the XLR's all they want, and with my blessings. In the mean time between now and then, more loyal members, I would assume, will be no longer loyal considering there is still ~2 years for the first XLRs. And this is assuming they reintroduce YOW-LHR/FRA with the first couple frames. Also, do not forget that one successful foreign carrier attracts others. 2 years is quite a long time for anything to happen and something AC is risking. Not only that, but Ottawa folks are notorious for driving to YUL, and these folks aren't necessarily choosing AC.

They CURRENTLY have more seats in YOW. That will very soon change seems like they are on a cutting trend and PD is already matching their direct flight offerings from 4 destinations at first to now 15 in less than a year. In 3-4 years time I would personally like to see PD set up a NA fortress hub at YOW and for a second foreign carrier to begin with AC's offerings drop to just their hubs (to free up slot/gate space). PD will be absolutely fine. One of the ULCC's will be the only ones going down if any.

[hollywoodcory]

AA adding 1x weekly CLT-YYC from June 8:

AA2626 CLT 09:17 - 11:45 YYC 738 6
AA2626 YYC 12:46 - 19:17 CLT 738 6

[casper]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

AA adding 1x weekly CLT-YYC from June 8:

AA2626 CLT 09:17 - 11:45 YYC 738 6
AA2626 YYC 12:46 - 19:17 CLT 738 6

That is just weird.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Where in my comment did I say AC is a failure as a whole? I don't give a toss about their profits. They clearly had something to say over AF's YOW-CDG and if they didn't care, they wouldn't have priced their round trips so aggressively at $380 specifically from YOW was my point. Their goal was to capture back the pax they lost and to hinder AF. I said they failed in this regard and I stand behind that statement with the introduction of AF increasing capacity (not officially announced but bookable).

AF increasing capacity at YOW is one thing. Pretending AC "failed" in preventing that from happening is something else entirely. The former is a fact. The latter is utter nonsense, and isn't factual at all.

Looking at ticket prices for random dates and drawing conclusions based on that is total nonsense. Of course AC will try and compete against other carriers by using price. Everyone does it. Doesn't mean they are failing in YOW against that carrier if you see cheap fares on certain days.

Next month, I'm showing AF selling YOW-CDG-YOW for only $604 RT on certain days, whereas AC is double that on the same dates with a 1 stop connection in YUL. Is that a sign of AC failing to compete against AF I wonder?

AF started YOW for a reason. They knew very well the demand from that market, considering they ran bus service from YUL to Ottawa for a number of years now. Chances are the route was going to succeed. Airlines don't start routes they think will fail. Same thing for YQB. I guess by your logic, AF succeeding at YQB means AC and TS failed to push them aside there as well.

AC's main European markets from YOW are to London and Frankfurt, and they have those markets covered via YUL/YYZ at the moment. If anything, I'd argue the fact that considering AC or LH hasn't hastily launched YOW-LHR or FRA this year, means they don't feel threatened by AF in YOW at the moment.

Also, do not forget that one successful foreign carrier attracts others.

Tell that to Edmonton. Even Calgary couldn't sustain a 2nd or 3rd European mainline carrier (BA/LH), and this was before WS started TATL out of YYC. Your logic is flawed once again. Ottawa isn't Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver, nor does it have a significant tourism draw like Calgary. So, like Edmonton, it will struggle to attract a second foreign carrier.

PD will be absolutely fine.

Based on what exactly? Your hopes and dreams? They're expanding at an incredible pace, with aircraft that have higher unit costs than their competition, in an overall Canadian market that has added a ton of capacity lately. "Absolutely fine" isn't what I would use to describe them at the moment ! Sure, the routes they are launching from YOW make sense, since Ottawa is underserved, but they are also launching flights in crowded markets like YYZ, YUL, YYC and YVR, and that's where their higher unit cost will bite them.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

AF increasing capacity at YOW is one thing. Pretending AC "failed" in preventing that from happening is something else entirely. The former is a fact. The latter is utter nonsense, and isn't factual at all.

Looking at ticket prices for random dates and drawing conclusions based on that is total nonsense. Of course AC will try and compete against other carriers by using price. Everyone does it. Doesn't mean they are failing in YOW against that carrier if you see cheap fares on certain days.

Next month, I'm showing AF selling YOW-CDG-YOW for only $604 RT on certain days, whereas AC is double that on the same dates with a 1 stop connection in YUL. Is that a sign of AC failing to compete against AF I wonder?

AF started YOW for a reason. They knew very well the demand from that market, considering they ran bus service from YUL to Ottawa for a number of years now. Chances are the route was going to succeed. Airlines don't start routes they think will fail. Same thing for YQB. I guess by your logic, AF succeeding at YQB means AC and TS failed to push them aside there as well.

"Here is a practically free pass to CDG with a loss on our end just for you, but we're not threatened at all, don't assume". They failed and failed miserably. At the time of these aggressive pricing, were more than half below AF's non-stops. I highly doubt any carrier would take a loss unless they are seeing a market for a specific route start to disappear. No way to prove it now, there was an ongoing discussion on YOW's page for more details and a breakdown of the changes to both AC's and AF's pricing since they were changing often at the time (a couple months back). I was a matter of fact worried this would hinder AF to not go daily. I respect your opinion but I do not share them.

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

AC's main European markets from YOW are to London and Frankfurt, and they have those markets covered via YUL/YYZ at the moment. If anything, I'd argue the fact that considering AC or LH hasn't hastily launched YOW-LHR or FRA this year, means they don't feel threatened by AF in YOW at the moment.


Tell that to Edmonton. Even Calgary couldn't sustain a 2nd or 3rd European mainline carrier (BA/LH), and this was before WS started TATL out of YYC. Your logic is flawed once again. Ottawa isn't Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver, nor does it have a significant tourism draw like Calgary. So, like Edmonton, it will struggle to attract a second foreign carrier.

So let me take a jab at if I understood your perfectly logical logic and not non-sense correctly with a hypothetical scenario. AC's YOW-LHR was served daily and was planned to increase seat capacity to a 788 before the pandemic. This had limited connections in LHR since it was limited to Star Alliance and airline partners between AC and whatever served LHR. However, if BA for example began YOW-LHR, this will fail? And AC will succeed along side AF? For sure AF wouldn't go out without a fight and I'm pretty sure AF and BA's presence in YOW would threaten AC. This is why I said they are taking risks by waiting while loyalty is switching and clearly the route is profitable for AF. You also speak as if Ottawa doesn't get $2+ billion dropped in the local economy from tourism. Some of which are folks already visiting Toronto and Montreal but hey, money is money and tourists are making their way here.

Calgary is already extremely well served to Europe for a city of that size thanks to WS so this comment is not in any way shape or form the same as YOW's situation. Also thanks to the proximity to other airports, YOW as a city has been deprived of proper service for a very long time. At the very least YEG and YYC is well served for NA. So forgive my frustration over my airport of choice being poorly served. And no, being nothing more and nothing less than a feeder for YYZ is not sufficient service.

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Based on what exactly? Your hopes and dreams? They're expanding at an incredible pace, with aircraft that have higher unit costs than their competition, in an overall Canadian market that has added a ton of capacity lately. "Absolutely fine" isn't what I would use to describe them at the moment ! Sure, the routes they are launching from YOW make sense, since Ottawa is underserved, but they are also launching flights in crowded markets like YYZ, YUL, YYC and YVR, and that's where their higher unit cost will bite them.

They are the ones running their business, they are well aware of what they are doing and what is best for their profits (your words not mine). If anything is going down it will be Flair or Lynx. I do not see PD yielding to anyone. This is my opinion, whether you approve or not and insulting someone else's by calling it nonsense and flawed is not an effective way to change their mind.

[zahav]

The AA add of once weekly CLT-YYC is kinda weird, such a random frequency. An unexpected addition, but good nonetheless! I wonder if WS will add it just to annoy AA lol, their former partner ally before WS went to DL. But I doubt it, they will probably let AA run their experiment of once weekly CLT service, knowing it isn't big competition to them. Is there anything special about Saturdays for Calgary? What I mean by that is, for example, YVR used to get additional transborder flights on Saturdays in the summer because of the cruise ships. The cruise ship traffic was so significant to the sector that it boosted flights on a particular days(s). I remember the single weekly DTW flights on DL (and previously Northwest) would be Saturdays, ATL too when it was operated by DL summer seasonal, plus most airlines up gauged aircraft on some routes because of the business of Saturday (ie. DL would use a 757 as opposed to 320 or 737, same with AA). I think even UA operated some 757s. One year I think DL even used a 767 for ATL, but it was like once or twice a week only. So that's what I mean by "something special about Saturday". The practice of increased Saturday service seems to have been abandoned, from what I see the YVR transborder scheds (on US carriers) are the same across all days of the week more or less. Certainly no standout Saturday anymore. Who knows what happened, I believe cruises are still busiest on Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday, and cruise traffic is higher than ever, so it's not like a decline in cruises was a factor. Maybe aircraft scheduling was harder then, and it had to do with availability (weekends tend to see reduced domestic flying, so aircraft could be freed up for leisure routes on Saturdays?). Whatever the case, it isn't a thing anymore. AA probably just had a plane free and thought why not? Maybe it is a sign the YVR-CLT advance bookings/yields have been good, and they saw the obvious untapped potential of Western Canada to somewhere like Charlotte (there are so many large, important airports in the US that lack connectivity to Western Canada). It's better now than it used to be, the entire south/southeast was basically absent from YVR/YYC's route maps for the longest time). Getting better overall with adds like more ATL, BNA, MIA, and now CLT, but always room for more . I don't think AA would add a YYC route now if their YVR numbers looked bad, it's smaller by all counts, and they'd have no reason to do it if YVR wasn't looking good.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by casper

That is just weird.

Low risk way of dipping a toe into YYC-USA Southeast traffic to see how they stack up against WS/DL to the competition’s fortress hub.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by zahav

The AA add of once weekly CLT-YYC is kinda weird, such a random frequency. An unexpected addition, but good nonetheless! I wonder if WS will add it just to annoy AA lol, their former partner ally before WS went to DL. But I doubt it, they will probably let AA run their experiment of once weekly CLT service, knowing it isn't big competition to them. Is there anything special about Saturdays for Calgary? What I mean by that is, for example, YVR used to get additional transborder flights on Saturdays in the summer because of the cruise ships. The cruise ship traffic was so significant to the sector that it boosted flights on a particular days(s). I remember the single weekly DTW flights on DL (and previously Northwest) would be Saturdays, ATL too when it was operated by DL summer seasonal, plus most airlines up gauged aircraft on some routes because of the business of Saturday (ie. DL would use a 757 as opposed to 320 or 737, same with AA). I think even UA operated some 757s. One year I think DL even used a 767 for ATL, but it was like once or twice a week only. So that's what I mean by "something special about Saturday". The practice of increased Saturday service seems to have been abandoned, from what I see the YVR transborder scheds (on US carriers) are the same across all days of the week more or less. Certainly no standout Saturday anymore. Who knows what happened, I believe cruises are still busiest on Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday, and cruise traffic is higher than ever, so it's not like a decline in cruises was a factor. Maybe aircraft scheduling was harder then, and it had to do with availability (weekends tend to see reduced domestic flying, so aircraft could be freed up for leisure routes on Saturdays?). Whatever the case, it isn't a thing anymore. AA probably just had a plane free and thought why not? Maybe it is a sign the YVR-CLT advance bookings/yields have been good, and they saw the obvious untapped potential of Western Canada to somewhere like Charlotte (there are so many large, important airports in the US that lack connectivity to Western Canada). It's better now than it used to be, the entire south/southeast was basically absent from YVR/YYC's route maps for the longest time). Getting better overall with adds like more ATL, BNA, MIA, and now CLT, but always room for more . I don't think AA would add a YYC route now if their YVR numbers looked bad, it's smaller by all counts, and they'd have no reason to do it if YVR wasn't looking good.

This is going to be one of the tour groups helping facilitate this. I am sure they have some start in Vancouver, end in Calgary Rocky tours that need to be completed and a tour group is working with American to get this done.

This summer, Vancouver is going daily to Charlotte. Calgary just Saturdays.
If forward bookings with Vancouver were strong they would have added another flight there. This is being done IMO as part of a tour package.

Regardless, this is weird.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

This is going to be one of the tour groups helping facilitate this. I am sure they have some start in Vancouver, end in Calgary Rocky tours that need to be completed and a tour group is working with American to get this done.

This summer, Vancouver is going daily to Charlotte. Calgary just Saturdays.
If forward bookings with Vancouver were strong they would have added another flight there. This is being done IMO as part of a tour package.

Regardless, this is weird.

Maybe AA have spare plane due to lower demand for domestic service on Saturday, and want to find some use for them?

When AC used to fly once weekly YVR-PVR and YVR/YYC-CUN during the summer, they were both on Saturdays as well.

[SimpleEng]

A rough Christmas for folks trying to fly from YKF to PVR - https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/12/...-in-kitchener/

Weather issues, maintenance issues and missing pilot

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by SimpleEng

A rough Christmas for folks trying to fly from YKF to PVR - https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/12/...-in-kitchener/

Weather issues, maintenance issues and missing pilot

Part of the gamble of flying with Flair out of a secondary airport in Canada.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

"Here is a practically free pass to CDG with a loss on our end just for you, but we're not threatened at all, don't assume". They failed and failed miserably. At the time of these aggressive pricing, were more than half below AF's non-stops. I highly doubt any carrier would take a loss unless they are seeing a market for a specific route start to disappear. No way to prove it now, there was an ongoing discussion on YOW's page for more details and a breakdown of the changes to both AC's and AF's pricing since they were changing often at the time (a couple months back). I was a matter of fact worried this would hinder AF to not go daily. I respect your opinion but I do not share them.



So let me take a jab at if I understood your perfectly logical logic and not non-sense correctly with a hypothetical scenario. AC's YOW-LHR was served daily and was planned to increase seat capacity to a 788 before the pandemic. This had limited connections in LHR since it was limited to Star Alliance and airline partners between AC and whatever served LHR. However, if BA for example began YOW-LHR, this will fail? And AC will succeed along side AF? For sure AF wouldn't go out without a fight and I'm pretty sure AF and BA's presence in YOW would threaten AC. This is why I said they are taking risks by waiting while loyalty is switching and clearly the route is profitable for AF. You also speak as if Ottawa doesn't get $2+ billion dropped in the local economy from tourism. Some of which are folks already visiting Toronto and Montreal but hey, money is money and tourists are making their way here.

Calgary is already extremely well served to Europe for a city of that size thanks to WS so this comment is not in any way shape or form the same as YOW's situation. Also thanks to the proximity to other airports, YOW as a city has been deprived of proper service for a very long time. At the very least YEG and YYC is well served for NA. So forgive my frustration over my airport of choice being poorly served. And no, being nothing more and nothing less than a feeder for YYZ is not sufficient service.



They are the ones running their business, they are well aware of what they are doing and what is best for their profits (your words not mine). If anything is going down it will be Flair or Lynx. I do not see PD yielding to anyone. This is my opinion, whether you approve or not and insulting someone else's by calling it nonsense and flawed is not an effective way to change their mind.

You are looking at it the wrong way, just because of you want Ottawa to have more service, which is fine.

But Air France and Air Canada are doing exactly the same thing. Their strategy is 100% the same. It just so happens having the same strategy means Ottawa is served to Europe by Air France not Air Canada.

Look at the 2nd and 3rd biggest cities in France, Lyon and Marseille. Air France runs basically nothing out of them and uses them to feed Paris. Just like AC does with Ottawa to Montreal/Toronto.

Both those cities have Canadian service - by Air Transat and Air Canada. By your logic Air France is giving up loyalty to Air Canada in the 2nd and 3rd biggest city in France. Reality is its much more profitable for Air France to serve Canada via Montreal than having non fed flights out of Lyon or Marseille. Just like Air Canada is more profitable serving Europe out of Toronto and Montreal out of Toronto and Vancouver.

BA is the same, they don't fly any long haul out of the 2nd biggest city, Manchester. The 2nd biggest city in Germany is Hamberg, Lufthansa uses it to feeds its hubs in other German cities.

Airlines today want to feed there hubs. On many days for the Europe flights out of Toronto there are more Americans than Canadians on the flights, 10 years ago that would have never happned. Hubs are more important now than other time in aviation. Calgary does well because of 50% of its passengers are connecting passengers. That is what Porter wants to do in Ottawa.

Going back to main point, AC, LH, BA, TK, AF etc are doing exactly the same thing. Feeding there hubs as much as possible to maximize profitability. You shouldn't get mad or annoyed at AC for doing it, than give AF a pass. Just know they are doing the same thing and that means Ottawa is still a spoke, now just to AF HUB.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

You are looking at it the wrong way, just because of you want Ottawa to have more service, which is fine.

But Air France and Air Canada are doing exactly the same thing. Their strategy is 100% the same. It just so happens having the same strategy means Ottawa is served to Europe by Air France not Air Canada.

Look at the 2nd and 3rd biggest cities in France, Lyon and Marseille. Air France runs basically nothing out of them and uses them to feed Paris. Just like AC does with Ottawa to Montreal/Toronto.

Both those cities have Canadian service - by Air Transat and Air Canada. By your logic Air France is giving up loyalty to Air Canada in the 2nd and 3rd biggest city in France. Reality is its much more profitable for Air France to serve Canada via Montreal than having non fed flights out of Lyon or Marseille. Just like Air Canada is more profitable serving Europe out of Toronto and Montreal out of Toronto and Vancouver.

BA is the same, they don't fly any long haul out of the 2nd biggest city, Manchester. The 2nd biggest city in Germany is Hamberg, Lufthansa uses it to feeds its hubs in other German cities.

Airlines today want to feed there hubs. On many days for the Europe flights out of Toronto there are more Americans than Canadians on the flights, 10 years ago that would have never happned. Hubs are more important now than other time in aviation. Calgary does well because of 50% of its passengers are connecting passengers. That is what Porter wants to do in Ottawa.

Going back to main point, AC, LH, BA, TK, AF etc are doing exactly the same thing. Feeding there hubs as much as possible to maximize profitability. You shouldn't get mad or annoyed at AC for doing it, than give AF a pass. Just know they are doing the same thing and that means Ottawa is still a spoke, now just to AF HUB.

Believe me when I say I understand this and the pros/cons of a hub-spoke model completely. My annoyance/frustration is how underserved YOW is thanks to AC's prepandemic chokehold. Other airports such as the ones you mentioned at least compensate with service from other carriers. Yet when someone mentioned 2 foreign carriers in YOW you get someone calling the idea (and you personally) farfetched and illogical. Mr. Deluce himself discussed how poorly served Ottawa's market is during a radio interview. It also doesn't help that we lose hundreds of thousands of pax to YUL for the sheer reason of having little options and higher costs at YOW, again thanks to AC. I don't know what the exact number is today but I assume it's higher than the 200k yearly loss a decade and a half ago. I'm actually glad AC has retreated, it means the long sought-after adequate service between now and 5-10 years time is within reach. OIAA themselves seem really optimistic about the future of the airport and currently looking into a potential terminal expansion, and something tells me it's no thanks to AC.

Also by your logic, AC should retreat YYC-LHR, yet I bet anything I'm about to get ambushed for even uttering the idea with a garnish of "YOW is well served by AC with 12x daily flights to YYZ, AC believes it, so it must be true". Personally, my support, opinion wise and financially, is going to the carriers that are currently building a hub in YOW and the ones that have increased TATL capacity twice in less than a year of launch.