Phoenix Development News (3)

[HooverDam]

^^ Well glad they forced that stupidity on us. This Tom Byrne guy seems like a real dunce from all the interaction I've had with him (which, has been limited). They got this idea in their head, which by the by the residents on Culver HATE, and were going to shove it on us one way or the other.

The bigger issue is, that area of the parks "re design" is now more or less considered finished by the City. So any plans for Hance will focus on just the rest of the Park and not that little pan handle because the City will claim "well we just spent $X to put a dog park there, we can't change it!"

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

^^ Well glad they forced that stupidity on us. This Tom Byrne guy seems like a real dunce from all the interaction I've had with him (which, has been limited). They got this idea in their head, which by the by the residents on Culver HATE, and were going to shove it on us one way or the other.

The bigger issue is, that area of the parks "re design" is now more or less considered finished by the City. So any plans for Hance will focus on just the rest of the Park and not that little pan handle because the City will claim "well we just spent $X to put a dog park there, we can't change it!"

Is a dog park downtown not a good idea? Especially in a historic district looking to become more dense; especially on the north side of the park? Seems like an urban dog park is desperately needed...I for one will take my dog there especially if the grass is maintained and people are fined if they don't clean up after their pets.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan

Is a dog park downtown not a good idea? Especially in a historic district looking to become more dense; especially on the north side of the park? Seems like an urban dog park is desperately needed...I for one will take my dog there especially if the grass is maintained and people are fined if they don't clean up after their pets.

Oh a dog park in downtown is a great idea! A dog park in Hance Park is a great idea too A dog park on that particular portion of the park however, is kinda just lazy design.

The reason they chose that spot is because there are two small hills, bisected by a parking lot. One hill is slightly larger than the other. Mr Byrne realized "hey we fence off these two hills, and wha la- dog park!" Good idea in principal I suppose, for efficiencies sake.

The problems are multiple:

1. the people who live on Culver, facing that section of the park are very, very opposed. There reasons are varied, but there reasons don't really matter. They live adjacent, they should have the right of first refusal as long as its reasonable. Its the same thing with how people commuting to Downtown PHX from Moon Valley shouldn't be able to tell people in Coronado "hey sorry about this highway that is 7th Street rumbling through your 'hood, but I gotta get home and watch TV!"

2. Its in the portion of the park FURTHEST from the most potential users. I for instance live less than a half a mile from those 2 humps, I have a dog, I have no plan to take my dog there. Why? Because I live in a single family neighborhood with plenty of grass area to walk my dog, let it go poo, etc.

The people who need the dog park live to the Southeast of the park. The people in Alta, the new Concord Eastridge Apartments, the Artisan lofts, etc. Thats the area with the densest living and the least green space for animals.

3. The park should be designed in a way that keeps noisy uses to the East half and quieter uses to the West half. The West half is where the more traditional neighborhood abuts the park and it should feel like just a large neighborhood park. Spaces for soccer, a playground, etc.

Noisier stuff like an amphitheater, dog park, splash pad, carousel, etc should be on the East half, where there's less residential and the residential thats there is A-OK with a bit more noise.

EDIT: VVV Ah yah I know what you mean, the one at Steele Indian School needs work for sure. My god is smaller, so our backyard in Willo is fine for her, obviously greyhounds need more room. They're great dogs though, my Dad has had many over the years.

In my "plan" for Hance Park I had the dog park going at Moreland and 2nd St. I also have the City abandoning Moreland between 1st & 2nd & expanding the park. That area over there by the two I-10 tunnel vents is already sort of quartered off in 2 halves, is nearest to potential users and would create long narrow shapes, good for tossing a ball/frisbee to a dog.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

2. Its in the portion of the park FURTHEST from the most potential users. I for instance live less than a half a mile from those 2 humps, I have a dog, I have no plan to take my dog there. Why? Because I live in a single family neighborhood with plenty of grass area to walk my dog, let it go poo, etc.

That is a very good point. Nonetheless I'm excited for it. I have a greyhound and can't let him off leash unless it's fenced in. I've taken him to Steele Indian School but that dog park is crap. It has a chain link fence, the grass is brown, and there are no trees/shade.

[RedFury1881]

If any of y'all are interested ...

Phoenix FC (they dropped the "City"), the new pro soccer team coming to Phoenix in 2013 (in a league called USL Pro, which is essentially AAA baseball) is holding its first official event, an open house on First Friday, Sept 7 at 314 E. Roosevelt.

LFR1881, the badass (says us) independent supporters group for PFC, will be there. Be awesome and join us!
Our open Facebook even invitation: http://www.facebook.com/events/251243308329516/

I'm posting this here because the team has been discussed in this forum before. If you're not interested ... well then move along, nothing to see here ...

[PHX31]

Can you further explain what LFR1881 is?

[RedFury1881]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Can you further explain what LFR1881 is?

Yep, "LFR1881" stands for "La Furia Roja 1881" or "The Red Fury 1881." It is a Phoenix soccer supporters group, proudly and loudly supporting new USL Pro franchise Phoenix FC.

The group's mission: aim to provide enthusiastic support, create a unique sports experience, chant, sing and cheer for 90+ minutes of game action. Create a distinctive atmosphere, motivate our team, intimidate opposing players and challenge the efforts of rival supporters.

LFR1881 is run independently of any Phoenix soccer team. They are not hooligans and do not condone hooliganism and actually abide by a code of conduct.

You can check out our Facebook organization page: facebook.com/LFR1881
It's an open page, so anyone can view it even if you don't have a Facebook account.

Hope that helped ...

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by RedFury1881

Yep, "LFR1881" stands for "La Furia Roja 1881" or "The Red Fury 1881." It is a Phoenix soccer supporters group, proudly and loudly supporting new USL Pro franchise Phoenix FC.

The group's mission: aim to provide enthusiastic support, create a unique sports experience, chant, sing and cheer for 90+ minutes of game action. Create a distinctive atmosphere, motivate our team, intimidate opposing players and challenge the efforts of rival supporters.

LFR1881 is run independently of any Phoenix soccer team. They are not hooligans and do not condone hooliganism and actually abide by a code of conduct.

You can check out our Facebook organization page: facebook.com/LFR1881
It's an open page, so anyone can view it even if you don't have a Facebook account.

Hope that helped ...

I assume the 1881 refers to Phoenix's founding/incorporating year? Or is it something else?

[combusean]

According to a reliable source, the buildings on Madison St near the arena, including two historic hotels (Madison and St James), will likely be demolished soon for a VIP parking lot.

[Vicelord John]

That's awesome news! I can't wait for the groundbreaking of said parking lot. I really would rather have VIP parking than some old shitty brick buildings.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by combusean

According to a reliable source, the buildings on Madison St near the arena, including two historic hotels (Madison and St James), will likely be demolished soon for a VIP parking lot.

Have any more info? I'd like to get the wheels turning on this. The Historic Preservation community needs the heads up. If its not something you want to post publicly feel free to PM me or message me on Facebook or whatever.

[gymratmanaz]

Go Hoover! Go! Those buildings need lovin!

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by combusean

According to a reliable source, the buildings on Madison St near the arena, including two historic hotels (Madison and St James), will likely be demolished soon for a VIP parking lot.

God dammit, what horrible news. Is there no end? One of those is a 1909 Victorian Brick. Phoenix has soooooooo many of those left that a parking lot is great reuse.

Not sure if anyone saw my semi-recent post on these buildings. Hoover, I hope you can get them saved.

Originally Posted by PHX31

Regarding the lots west of the US Airways Center. This hopefully only includes the empty block still occupied by the barrister building. That other block just to the south still houses those old buildings (a hotel and the white stuccoed old building) on Madison. Those guys are desperately in need of TLC, or they're going to be razed quicker than a speculator can put pen to paper.

I read the "Images of America - Downtown Phoenix" book last night, which had quite a bit of interesting information in it. The white stuccoed building (seen below) was built in 1909 in a Victorian brick style. With a little facade rehab and some renovations, it would be an AMAZING building... one of the very few remaining in downtown Phoenix, and a true asset to the city. Of course, this means nothing and it will likely be destroyed. But, it has to be saved. Buildings like that are a dime a dozen in many cities, but here not many are left.

You can see the tall arched windows and the brick work "cornice" or "lip" on the top of the building. Imagine if it were brought back to being brick and renovated... it would be awesome!



It would make some awesome lofts if renovated, or, I can imagine a startup or some architectural design firm occupying the building. From the side you can see the brick work as it is only painted white. The front has the layer of stucco.



The hotel is decent too... albeit not quite as old as 1909... but the best thing is look how far back on the lot it goes.



EDIT: Looks like the owner of these lots is "Suns Legacy Properties". Maybe that's good (or bad?).

[dtnphx]

How can these buildings not have been protected? How? What are our options?

[HooverDam]

I contacted Jim McPherson, president of the Arizona Preservation Foundation about this, here's what he said:

Hi Will. Yes, I know. As APF president, I sent an email out about 10 days ago to learn more about was was/is going on. The mayor and city staffers are working on it. The mayor met with the owner and asked for some "breathing room" to come up with alternatives (to which he agreed to). At least two meetings are being held early next week to discuss options. I'm attending one of them. After that, I/we will be better able to gauge which way the wind is blowing.

So I guess we're in a holding pattern for now.

[pbenjamin]

Talton talks about this in his blog of a couple days ago.

One additional piece of important business. Preservationists are trying to save the last authentic piece of the historic Deuce, a half-block including the old Madison and St. James hotels, to which I came many a time while on the ambulance. The St. James is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. In a heathy city, these would be saved and rehabbed into treasured buildings housing productive enterprises. In Phoenix, somebody has pulled a demolition permit to leave yet another blazing surface parking lot. Time is running out. Call Mayor Stanton and council members. And...why isn't there a higher tax rate for teardowns than for preserving historic buildings, and other positive incentives. I still remember a real "row" on Roosevelt, buildings housing shops, most of them leveled. It's a crime. Stand up.

http://roguecolumnist.typepad.com/ro...ation-etc.html

[Vicelord John]

Sickening.

Developers in this city need more vision.

[combusean]

I hate these arguments because it's always having to decide between property rights and public good. Building permits are part of an administrative process (not a judicial one) so there's nothing stopping anybody from razing what they own unless its under HP zoning.

Maybe the preservationists can pull some citywide ballot proposition where council approval has to be given before a building can be razed. I'd throw some money towards it winning, but if I lived there I'd vote no on it. Funny how that can make sense sometimes.

[PHX31]

Maybe voices can't change the nuts and bolts of a process, but maybe they can change the mind of the property owner into rethinking their desire to raze. The Suns own those lots, they should be given some options or ideas that differ from razing buildings for a VIP parking lot. Maybe they rehab the buildings and make them a VIP lounge for pre-game parties (with the rest of the time being Suns offices)... they can surely find a few existing parking spaces nearby to turn into VIP parking.

[Vicelord John]

If the owners were smart, they'd take advantage of the buildings and figure out how to make them into a revenue source without razing and sell them off later.