Burnaby Updates

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logan5

Over 70 story proposal for Metrotown - Willingdon and Kingsway. Must be a new tallest proposal for Metro Vancouver?

Maybe, maybe not. Pinnacle at Lougheed have proposed 82 floors, and that also has office and a hotel. There doesn't appear to be any new information in the Daily Hive piece about the Bosa towers, over what was known for several months (although the 'very preliminary sketch' may be new).

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Maybe, maybe not. Pinnacle at Lougheed have proposed 82 floors, and that also has office and a hotel. There doesn't appear to be any new information in the Daily Hive piece about the Bosa towers, over what was known for several months (although the 'very preliminary sketch' may be new).

Isn't this one also going to be by Gensler?

They seem to be Bosa's go-to architects for the Metrotown area with two other towers (including the Central Park one) in the area also by them under Bosa.

Also "over 70 floors" doesn't really tell us anything at all.

It could be low 70's and closer to a 72 or 74 floors in which case I doubt it would be taller than the proposed Lougheed tower.

But on the flip side, it could be upper 70's like 77 or 78 floors which, depending on the program configuration and how much hotel and office space they end up going for, could in fact put it in the game for being the tallest.

But the presence of a (relatively and comparatively pretty tall) second tower in the concept sketch (most likely non-market and rental) tells me they're likely not going to max out the height on the taller tower and instead spread out the FSR between the two.

I'd place money on low 70's for the floor count for the taller tower.


EDIT : Okay, I've just seen the article confirm that it is indeed Gensler designing it.

(they indicated it as the "New York based Gensler". I'm fairly certain that Gensler's US headquarters are in San Fransisco and not their New York office.
Additionally, I would have thought that it would be their newly opened Vancouver office that would be handling this one rather than any of the US offices which would need a Canadian architecture firm of record to partner with).

[Metro-One]

I think it also confirms two towers instead of just one.

[jollyburger]

I guess the sketch is new.

Saw this on Emporis

Height (estimated) 235.34 m
Floors (above ground) 73
Construction start 2022
Construction end 2027

https://www.emporis.com/buildings/15...burnaby-canada

And it's almost 100% it will be lead by the Vancouver but collaborating with other offices. They have a managing director in Vancouver now. In January they had 5 people and planned on hiring more through the year.

• Video Link

[logan5]

Not a fan of these town centers at all, but it is interesting watching the these towers reach greater and greater heights with each new iteration. The Old Orchard sight will almost certainly produce a new tallest.

Metrotown is headed in the direction of becoming as densely populated as DT Vancouver, so who knows, with these extreme densities that we are seeing, maybe Metrotown or Brentwood will reach a tipping point where things on the street start to get interesting.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Sheba

From the article: "This would be a mixed-use complex, containing about one million sq ft of total floor area, with uses such as condominiums, market rental housing, below-market rental housing, offices, hotel, conference and ballroom spaces, retail, and supporting amenities."

Sounds like a nightmarish building to manage and own in with so many parties to involve in everything. I also dislike the design and the placement of the towers. Height like this calls for a way more special design. I hope it will see changes over time.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I guess the sketch is new.

Saw this on Emporis

Height (estimated) 235.34 m
Floors (above ground) 73
Construction start 2022
Construction end 2027

https://www.emporis.com/buildings/15...burnaby-canada

And it's almost 100% it will be lead by the Vancouver but collaborating with other offices. They have a managing director in Vancouver now. In January they had 5 people and planned on hiring more through the year.

...

Construction start in 2022?

They seriously believe their application process will get through the City of Burnaby's rigamarole and buzzsaw in under a year?

They're seriously way over-optimistic with that timeline.

Unless they start the rezoning and DP applications late this year (for a possible construction start late next year after all the readings, Public Hearings, etc), I just don't see that happening.

And while 235m would indeed make it the tallest in Metrotown (besting Concord Sears' 230m), I'm still not entirely convinced that that would make it taller than the Lougheed tower.
But there's a good chance that if they do keep that timeline and meet that construction deadline, that for a while it could be the region's tallest tower.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Construction start in 2022?

They seriously believe their application process will get through the City of Burnaby's rigamarole and buzzsaw in under a year?

They're seriously way over-optimistic with that timeline.

Unless they start the rezoning and DP applications late this year (for a possible construction start late next year after all the readings, Public Hearings, etc), I just don't see that happening.

They didn't say when in 2022...

From the latest (end of July) Burnaby Major Development Projects:

REZ #21-13 Bosa Properties Inc.
4444 and 4488 Kingsway
The purpose of the proposed rezoning bylaw amendment is to permit the construction of two-mixed use mixed-tenure high-rise buildings above a low-rise commercial podium.
Initial Report 2021.06.14

[vanman]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I also dislike the design and the placement of the towers. Height like this calls for a way more special design. I hope it will see changes over time.

Agreed.

[vanman]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Floorplate reminds me of 320 Granville.

Daily Hive keeps calling the new crop of towers "super-tall".
"Super-tall" is reserved for towers over 300 metres, which none of these are.


https://www.ctbuh.org/resource/height

I guess they consider anything taller than Shangrila "super-tall". I found it annoying as well.

[officedweller]

With the 2 towers, curious what the split in uses would be.
Shorter tower may be rentals (market and below market), while taller tower could be hotel, office and condos.
Or shorter tower could have hotel and rentals and taller office and condos, but the trend is to have hotel in the same tower as condos to provide luxury services.
I'm assuming the taller tower would have condos at the top.

[urbanight93]

If i'm understanding this correctly, the taller tower is located on the northwest corner of the site, probably to provide uninterrupted views towards downtown (also servicing from the side street). Not sure if that's the site configuration i would've gone for because it makes the Willingdon/kingsway intersection into an afterthought. The design looks simple but I'm all for it if they focus on quality.

[officedweller]

That's the way I see it too.
Kingsway at the bottom of rendering, Willingdon on the left.
Probably to avoid wind shear effects at the corner.
You'd think they'd be able to create something making a bit more of a landmark on the corner.


https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/4444...erties-gensler

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Sounds like a nightmarish building to manage and own in with so many parties to involve in everything. I also dislike the design and the placement of the towers. Height like this calls for a way more special design. I hope it will see changes over time.

This isn't a final design, though.

It's just a conceptual massing sketch for the purposes of a rezoning application (and really actually, to initiate the rezoning process), which means that all they're interested in conveying at this stage is the massing, the height and possibly the tower placement on the site (also not set in stone at this stage).

It's almost guaranteed that the design they submit for the actual DP (Design Permit) application will be vastly different from what you're seeing in those images aside from the heights and massing.

Even the Tower placement and location on the site could change at that stage as that's the point at which you make your case for what the final design should be and why they are located where they are on the site.

And even design permit submittals are always final "final" designs.
Those change too.
(Although a re-submittal for the application would likely be required).

See: Station Square's Towers 4 and 5 which changed drastically from the initial DP application while the project was fully under Dikeakos, to what they are not after KPF took over the design.


One thing in these sketches that might remain through the design might be the curves.
Gensler seem to love those in their tower designs.
So I hope for your sake that that's not what's irking you about it.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by urbanight93

If i'm understanding this correctly, the taller tower is located on the northwest corner of the site, probably to provide uninterrupted views towards downtown (also servicing from the side street). Not sure if that's the site configuration i would've gone for because it makes the Willingdon/kingsway intersection into an afterthought. The design looks simple but I'm all for it if they focus on quality.

Originally Posted by officedweller

That's the way I see it too.
Kingsway at the bottom of rendering, Willingdon on the left.
Probably to avoid wind shear effects at the corner.
You'd think they'd be able to create something making a bit more of a landmark on the corner.

Maybe they didn't want it to compete with Sovereign, across the street which is also a corner placement tower - and they wanted their own signature tower to stand out on its own.

But personally, I do agree that they should have gone for the corner placement because their tower is going to be much taller anyway and any talk of a competing visual would be moot.


As for uninterrupted views to downtown, we all know (as should anyone who eventually chooses to buy into this project) that it's only a matter of time before the old Orchid Square lot across the street over on Kinsgway is re-developed itself, with possibly comparatively equally tall towers that will eat out most of those viewlines.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Maybe they didn't want it to compete with Sovereign, across the street which is also a corner placement tower - and they wanted their own signature tower to stand out on its own.

But personally, I do agree that they should have gone for the corner placement because their tower is going to be much taller anyway and any talk of a competing visual would be moot.

Actually, I meant a mid-rise showpiece pavilion on the corner, not the tower on the corner (I like to see some breathing space on the major corners).
But as you mention, this is only a massing plan.

[jollyburger]

I wonder if that's a pool above that terrace garden. And a giant plaza in between the building with staircases?

[jollyburger]

Not sure if this is old or not but there's this Parkcrest strata windup at 5932 Patterson

https://parkcrestmetrotown.ca/

CRBE says they have a firm deal on it

https://multifamilybc.cbrevancouver.com/strata-wind-up/

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Not sure if this is old or not but there's this Parkcrest strata windup at 5932 Patterson

https://parkcrestmetrotown.ca/

CRBE says they have a firm deal on it

https://multifamilybc.cbrevancouver.com/strata-wind-up/

That's a real opportunity for a great landmark tower under the right developer given it's location at the doorstep of Patterson Skytrain station and a literal stones throw from Central Park.

Probably won't be too tall seeing as it's located at the edge of the Metrotown downtown "core" - even though the potential massing rendering image they have shown claims "No building height limit".
But a 5.0 FAR (projected) could give you quite a bit of room to play with.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Not sure if this is old or not but there's this Parkcrest strata windup at 5932 Patterson

https://parkcrestmetrotown.ca/

CRBE says they have a firm deal on it

https://multifamilybc.cbrevancouver.com/strata-wind-up/

my sister was looking at buying a unit there in 1990 or so. She thought it was too much at that time though.