Western Expresso

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by drew

I think he left out a zero from behind the 8.

Self driving vehicles replacing what we have now within 8 years is pure fantasy.

I'm guessing they'll be making a pretty big dent by that time. 20 years ago most of us were just getting our first computer. And no one had a cell phone. Look at us now.

[drew]

Delete

[drew]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

I'm guessing they'll be making a pretty big dent by that time. 20 years ago most of us were just getting our first computer. And no one had a cell phone. Look at us now.

I don't doubt things will progress, but self driving cars currently base a lot of their controls on road/lane markings and other features that are wonderful in areas like southern California, but places like Winnipeg where the roads are covered with snow for 3-4 months solid, and then need repainting every year, the system needs a Big quantum leep forward before any real dents are made here.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

^Yeah, I'm thinking 15-20 years, not 8.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Maybe he meant within the borders of Stanford University?

Actually true. There are Google cars and of course Teslas, crawling all over Palo Alto. If you lived there you might have a slanted view about the state of the transition.

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

I'm guessing they'll be making a pretty big dent by that time. 20 years ago most of us were just getting our first computer. And no one had a cell phone. Look at us now.

Most of us getting our first computers 20 years ago? Dude, how old are you? Most of my university classmates and I were buying our first computers (IBM clones-the rich kids were buying Apple Macintosh's) in the early 1980's. Almost 40 years ago.

And Nokia cell phones were everywhere in 1990 (27 years ago).

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Most of us getting our first computers 20 years ago? Dude, how old are you? Most of my university classmates and I were buying our first computers (IBM clones-the rich kids were buying Apple Macintosh's) in the early 1980's. Almost 40 years ago.

And Nokia cell phones were everywhere in 1990 (27 years ago).

I had my first cell phone 25 years ago, but I did not have a home computer until at least the mid- 90's.

[esquire]

You can certainly pick and choose examples of people using personal computers and cell phones way back when, but they didn't become ubiquitous until the 90s (for PCs) and the 00s (for cell phones). The only place that Nokia cell phones were everywhere in 1990 would have been in a store that sold Nokia cell phones.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Yeah, I didn't see a lot of these around.


http://nokiamuseum.info/category/launching-year/1990/

[1ajs]

My dad bought a Heathkit h89 in 79 and he bought a Heathkit h11 few months later then won himself a Dec rainbow 100... But pft u guys and ur ibms

[Finessing]

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

I was not aware Winnipeg isn't allowed to grow an urban lifestyle. Sorry about that Center-Of-The-Universe-guy, we'll stop with the downtown rejuvenation and continue to sprawl out into the never ending wide open countryside, while leaving downtown to the unrulies.

I hope Winnipeg is able to rejuvenate their downtown. That's why I said I hope this project proceeds. However, it's very hard to sell condos in markets that aren't already developed. Toronto went through the same thing 15 years ago before there was a critical mass downtown that made it more livable. I'm not sure Winnipeg has the same variables in play that Toronto did back then to make it happen yet.

Anyways, I don't think the 50% sales number is anywhere near accurate so we'll see how it does if and when a real developer takes it over.

The shot at me because I live in Toronto is unnecessary. I don't look down on anybody simply because of where they live, but to each their own.

Originally Posted by Cyro

I believe your anecdotal perception can be experienced in any major Canadian city at any given time. But we won't make this a TO vs.Winnipeg discussion now will we, seeing that you've mentioned you are a resident of Toronto, with an un-ending and insatiable interest in posting only in matters pertaining to Fortress in Winnipeg and Regina.

I was interested in the crime issue so I did a little research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_...y_index_by_CMA

Turns out it's not just anecdotal. Winnipeg has been the murder capital of Canada 20+ times since 1981 when they started keeping statistics. The issues don't appear to stop just at murders either as you can tell if you peruse that Wiki article.

Anyways, Winnipeggers are some of the nicest Canadians I've met (except when I wore my Leafs jersey to the Jets game ) I just think they need to do something about the "unrulies" (as somebody else called them) downtown because they don't seem to act as aggressively in other major Canadian cities I've been.

Originally Posted by biguc

That exists in every hick town in America. Dysfunctionally under-populated communities are hardly an asset or unique.

I grew up in a small town. I don't think it's dysfunctional or under-populated. It had some great advantages, particularly for middle and lower-income folks. It's not for everybody but I think the vast majority of families prefer suburban or urban living in a detached home over higher-density housing in a city.

[bomberjet]

I guess the term aggressive needs to be defined. To me aggressive means they come up to you and make physical contact of some sort. Grab your arm or something. Most do not ever touch me. The guy last week was giving free hugs.

[CoryB]

^^ Something to keep in mind is most of the more serious crimes in Winnipeg occur where the parties are known to each other in advance. Part of it is the gap between perception and reality. Sure Winnipeg has a high murder rate per capita but the flip side of that is are you someone that hangs out with murderers?

[cheswick]

I've been working downtown or switching buses downtown when I was university for close to 20 years. I can honestly say I have not once felt threatened or intimidated by a pan handler.

[CoryB]

Incidents happen, don't get me wrong but part of that is people's perception of the issues. I recall a time when I was a fair bit younger and on my own in downtown for close to the first time. I was walking in the sky walk system and felt I was being followed. We aren't talking store security following me either here. Realizing there may be a situation I did like any good mystery show/movie would suggest and altered my route, stayed in a public aware where others would be able to assist if needed and let the person I was concerned with go on their way.

In terms of actual v perceived personal safety downtown most of the issues could be handled by trying to stay relatively calm and addressing the actual issue in a smart way.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

^ Must be the 'day after May Long' hangover for everyone.

There's even some knucklehead in the Canada section arguing that the earth is flat based on a picture of Toronto from 40km away.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Finessing

I would consider it downtown but granted I'm not a local.

As an outsider and Toronto-resident, I don't see the appeal of downtown living in Winnipeg. In Toronto, there are several reasons to live downtown in a condo:

1. Walkable/transit-oriented neighbourhoods which let you avoid the brutal traffic and commutes associated with the suburbs. You do not need to own a car and are actually better off using other transit methods downtown due to congestion and parking fees.

2. Affordability. Ground-oriented housing is completely out of the price range of most people in the GTA, even in the suburbs.

3. Lifestyle of condo ownership (i.e. no maintenance really, just lock the door)

I only see #3 as a benefit in Winnipeg for middle-class folks.

I also think downtown Winnipeg is a lot sketchier than downtown Toronto as far as a crime goes but maybe that's just my perception. The homeless people seem more aggressive. I've never had an issue in Toronto but can recall a couple times in Winnipeg where sketchy characters approached me or my friends in an aggressive manner demanding things. Not sure I'd want to deal with that all of the time but again that's just my perception.

The great thing about Winnipeg to me is all the nice suburban or rural areas with affordable detached housing. Sure, you add to your commute but compared to Toronto it seems very reasonable.

I'm your inverse... Winnipeg resident, in Toronto for work a lot.

Some not bad points, but some of that appeal comes from the impossibility of detached home ownership in Toronto, whereas Winnipeggers like having the choice of either.

1. We need to get more walkable, but I know a lot of people living outside downtown using transit only to get to and enjoy downtown. Walkability in our downtown isn't bad, but I can't comment on the transit. Our cabs are horrible however and Uber solves that.

2. Downtown living is pretty affordable here. The nice thing is Winnipeggers are choosing it rather than being forced into it.

3. We may be a car catered city, but we have entire upcoming generations that are wired for a more urban life. It's our responsibility to help facilitate a vibrant urban life along with that demand.

As far as safety is concerned, Winnipeg isn't great on stats, but downtown is fine. Stay away from the odd part of downtown or the North End, and you're good. It's easier to avoid areas considered "problems", if one is concerned.

I've never felt any safer in Toronto's downtown, to be honest. That's not a criticism though, as I love downtown TO. Just Winnipeg's isn't bad.

[oftheMoon]

Originally Posted by cheswick

I've been working downtown or switching buses downtown when I was university for close to 20 years. I can honestly say I have not once felt threatened or intimidated by a pan handler.

Ditto. I've been working downtown for 27 years and have never felt threatened or intimidated by a panhandler either. Been asked for change hundreds of times and have politely said no hundreds of times and often get a 'have a nice day' in response.

I've also had some great conversations with some of these fellows when I do stop to give them a dime and some of my time. They're mostly down and out looking for some change for whatever floats their boat. Harm is not their intention.

People have to stop cowering in fear from folks like that - they are people. Just people who are living an incredibly different life than the middle class that pass them by each day.

[borkborkbork]

The big difference between here and other cities is not that we have more panhandlers and homeless, it's that we have less... *anyone else.*

There's lots of sketchy people in downtown Toronto that I wouldn't want to share a dark alley with, but there's also lots of regular folks walking around.

Winnipeg's less safe because it's a ghost town at night -- it's not a ghost town at night because it's less safe.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

The big difference between here and other cities is not that we have more panhandlers and homeless, it's that we have less... *anyone else.*

There's lots of sketchy people in downtown Toronto that I wouldn't want to share a dark alley with, but there's also lots of regular folks walking around.

Winnipeg's less safe because it's a ghost town at night -- it's not a ghost town at night because it's less safe.

Bang on.