CHICAGO: Transit Developments

[Abner]

I remember reading in some of the CTA's responses to comments at some point of the Circle Line alternatives analysis stage that a route along Western was projected to have significantly higher ridership but would of course cost much more because of the absence of any existing right-of-way or track. Barring a magical development in subway construction technology, the best we can probably hope for there is bus rapid transit.

I can understand why a Circle Line roughly along Ashland might not be a good use of severely limited resources, but I still think that most here would agree that some spoke-connecting line would make the system a whole lot more usable and attractive for a wider variety of trips. Personally I would probably rather see a Mid-City Transitway fill that role, but I guess I can keep dreaming on that one.

Aside from lower cost, one benefit of the Circle Line is that it could relieve congestion and decrease headways through the State subway to the point where trips with endpoints between North Ave. and Roosevelt could be made very quickly by rail. So it would be good news for River North and the Loop, too.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Marcu

Has any in their official capacity at the CTA ever mentioned anything about connection the Brown like to Blue at Jefferson Park? Or is that just something people on this forum have came up with.

As far as I know, it actually has been in the long term capital plans of the regional planning agencies for some time (e.g. decades), but obviously there has been zero progress in terms of any land acquisition, design/engineering, etc.

Something to remember is that none of these projects advance solely on technical merits; they advance at the behest and pleasure of various levels of politicians, particularly congressmen, the mayor, and USDOT appointed bureaucrats. Kruesi's years at US DOT and tight relationship with the mayor were crucial in getting the Ravenswood and Douglas branches rebuilt with New Start money, for example, which is supposedly money for building new transit services (I guess the Douglas was construed as a "New Start" because the baseline would have been the line being mothballed, and Ravenswood was a "New Start" because of additional capacity).

Red Line south extension is a Jesse Jr project, for example. Brown extension to Blue would be a Rahm Emmanuel project. Airport Express and Circle Line were Daley projects.

As for projects that advance on technical merits but without a clear and consistent political "owner," like the Second Avenue Subway... well, we all know the timeline on that one.

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

It's even dubious how much it would actually speed trips for existing riders. A single transfer downtown is almost always faster than two transfers at 1600W.

Bullseye. Studies show that the transfer penalty is worth 5-15 minutes of in-vehicle travel time, depending on a rider's other trip characteristics. The number of people who would actually see travel time reductions that negate the transfer penalty would be very small. Eliminating slow zones, increasing frequency, and reducing station dwell times would be a more cost-effective way of shortening travel times.

[Busy Bee]

^All the more reason for an all powerful transport czar that lifts strategic transport cheerleading and planning above the heads of alderman and district reps and takes it right to the money. Nice and clean and a whole lot faster... like the goal of CTA rapid transit.

[the urban politician]

^ Chicago needs its own transit-friendly version of Robert Moses

[alex1]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

It's an idea based on looking at a map rather than looking at unserved transit needs. Lots and lots of money with little prospect of attracting new riders (only four new stations). It's even dubious how much it would actually speed trips for existing riders. A single transfer downtown is almost always faster than two transfers at 1600W.

I know that when I lived in Chicago, there was not one single project that could have aided my commute moreso then the circle line (if built up along Ashland). It would, without a doubt made getting places quickly and rather painless.

only 4 new stations but that's not the main goal of the project. It acts as a circulator and it connects to many existing stations. It's the one thing Chicago area rail transit lacks in comparison to other cities with great systems.

[aaron38]

So I've been trying to figure out what's the best way to get from Palatine to Lakeview on mass transit. I can take Metra to the loop and the red line back up, but that takes forever. I can drive to Howard, but then I might as well drive the whole way if I think I can find parking. I can drive to Kimball, but that's not much better.

How long is the Irving Park 80 bus ride from the Metra station to Clark/Sheridan, and how often do buses run? That limits us to Metra hours, but it's car free.

[Mr Downtown]

Why not take the X80 from Metra Irving Park to Clark/Sheridan? Should take about 15 minutes. Buses run every 15 minutes or better all day.

But for such a short trip, you're usually better off just taking whichever shows up first, a regular 80 or an X80. The time you save with limited stops is often spent waiting for the limited-stop bus to come.

If you're coming for a ballgame, don't forget about Pace Bus 282 from the Woodfield Transit Center straight to Wrigley.

[Chicago Shawn]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

Bullseye. Studies show that the transfer penalty is worth 5-15 minutes of in-vehicle travel time, depending on a rider's other trip characteristics. The number of people who would actually see travel time reductions that negate the transfer penalty would be very small. Eliminating slow zones, increasing frequency, and reducing station dwell times would be a more cost-effective way of shortening travel times.

I would say the biggest gain from the Circle Line would be a new defined boundry for downtown growth within easy reach of transit. Of course in the real world we have WLCO screwing things up, so any future land use changes likely wouldn't be worth the cost of using up our limited alotment of capital funds that could serve more poeple elsewhere in the city.

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Why not take the X80 from Metra Irving Park to Clark/Sheridan? Should take about 15 minutes. Buses run every 15 minutes or better all day.

That's only 60 minutes total transit time, not bad. Thanks.

[nomarandlee]

VivaLFuego;3727440]As far as I know, it actually has been in the long term capital plans of the regional planning agencies for some time (e.g. decades), but obviously there has been zero progress in terms of any land acquisition, design/engineering, etc.

Has there ever been rough mappings of what that route would look like? I think it would be a great addition but it looks complicated if it were anything other then tunnel boring. There are two expressways in the way, incongruent streets NE of Elston, freight/Metra tracks, and pretty dense housing without many empty lots.

(Nevermind, after looking again I guess I just made it to complicated and the potential route would just turn from the Kimball station west on Lawerence and run the EL over the street or cut and cover. Still crossing the expressway/L/Metra would be challenging I think).

.........I also think it would make sense to connect make a spur into the Brown line connecting the Red Line with the Red Line at Wilson and Brown line to give Red/Blue line true connectivity in the north. If this East/West line could be integrated into a Mid-City Line or make the feasibility of a Mid-City line going heavy rail I am not sure.

If people had to pick up an outer loop like the Mid-City route (with Brown Line and possibility Red Line hook ups) or the Circle Line which would do they think would be more productive?

[Skyward]

The management of Yorktown Shopping Center has informed Pace that all bus routes which stop near the lower level of JC Penney may no longer enter Yorktown property after July 31, 2008.

Beginning August 1, the new transfer location will be on Branding, between Oak Grove and Finley in Downers Grove which is west of Yorktown.

[sammyg]

I've recently heard chatter in City Hall about how the Circle Line will connect the "up and coming" Wicker Park and Pilsen neighborhoods with Lincoln Park and Lakeview.

Clearly, the people I was talking to are a little clueless about what neighborhoods are being gentrified, but there still seems to be interest in the City in some kind of connection between the brown, pink and blue lines along ashland/north

[Abner]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

If people had to pick up an outer loop like the Mid-City route (with Brown Line and possibility Red Line hook ups) or the Circle Line which would do they think would be more productive?

The two serve such different functions. The Circle Line would improve connectivity between inner neighborhoods and promote more transit-oriented lifestyles close to downtown. It's not popular around here but I still think it would get a decent amount of use, albeit not that much from work trips. I know I would use it a lot, but I probably have unusual travel patterns. As I mentioned before it would also improve service in the State subway.

The Mid-City route (I'm treating this as O'Hare to the tracks along Kenton, then south past Midway, then turning east to the tracks near 75th over to the Red Line) would connect a huge area of mostly low-density neighborhoods and the O'Hare Blue, Green, Forest Park Blue, Pink, Orange, and Red Lines and could be easily the most attractive way to make long north-south trips, and maybe east-west trips currently served by the 79th St bus, the busiest in the system. It would also make it much easier to take transit to O'Hare and might even facilitate O'Hare-Midway transfers as well. All told I'd rather see the Mid-City line, but they're not that comparable--the Circle Line requires two or three relatively short pieces of subway or elevated track laid and the Mid-City line would probably be the longest line in the system, almost all of it new.

[sammyg]

^

I think the Mid-City would provide a good primary line for more people than the Circle, but more people would end up using the circle to transfer between lines, and it would be used by people who already use transit - the cicero/pulaski area is developed for cars, it'd take a lot of transit-oriented development to really get people on the trains.

[Abner]

Yeah, but a lot of it is no less dense than some of the neighborhoods served by the outer O'Hare Blue Line, the Orange Line, and the Dan Ryan Red Line, all of which have pretty good ridership. Also don't forget the east-west running section of the proposed Mid-City line, which would almost definitely have high ridership, and the large number of people who would use it to go to O'Hare. It would open up lots of routes that individually might not account for a lot, but together could make it pretty well-used.

[Chicagoguy]

Does anyone know if they are still seriously considering a new line along the lake...connecting Soldier Field, the Museums, Navy Pier, and then hopefully in 2016 the Olympic Village and the Stadiums.

I think I had heard they were thinking of doing some kind of light rail system?

[sammyg]

True. Honestly, any new line in the city, or even the orange/red/yellow extensions, would get a lot of use.

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Why not take the X80 from Metra Irving Park to Clark/Sheridan? Should take about 15 minutes. Buses run every 15 minutes or better all day.

Ehh, I dunno about that, I have been using Irving Park all summer and any weekday anytime near rush hour Irving Park grinds to a halt and I have a hard time getting across the city on Irving Park in a car in less than 20-25 min. Also, any time there is a Cubs game within 4 hours of the time you want to use the X80, you may as well just go all the way downtown on the Redline and then just back up the Blueline because Irving Park is completely useless on Cubs game days. Not trying to say you are wrong because the X80 and 80 are very quick when there is no traffic, I just freaking hate Irving Park rd because it is the best thing we have to cross the city on the northside and half the time it takes more than an hour to go 5 miles by bus...

[Segun]

Lets say they built in with the plans to connect Old Orchard to Midway Airport, I'll do a run-through of the mid-city line. Starting from Old Orchard, which is still a major transit destination. (I've been taking the buses down there for years, trust me). Here's what it would possibly serve.

-Oakton Community College, downtown Skokie and a connection to the Yellow Line.

-A closer bus connection to Lincolnwood Town Center than Howard street.

-Another connection to Devon Street.

- More convienient connection to Northeastern University.

-Transfer to the Jefferson Park transit center, serving a large number of buses, Blue Line, and Metra.

-Direct service to the the 6 Points shopping area off Irving Park, and an easier bus connection to the Harlem Irving Plaza.

-Service to Schurz HS off Milwaukee Avenue near Addison, and another Polish business district.

-Vibrant Mexican/Puerto Rican business districts at Belmont, Fullerton, Armitage and North, and connections to the Brickyard Mall at Diversey.

-major railyard employement at Chicago/Cierco

-transfer to the Cicero Green Line at Lake, with stops at Madison, Roosevelt, and Cermak (w. a connection to the Pink Line). They might not be that populated, but poor people still use it out of necessity.

- Two block walk from the Little Village district, the 2nd largest shopping district in Chicago after Mich Ave.

- Direct service to the Hawthorne Race Track.

from there on, I agree it does get very spotty, there's mild areas near Archer Park, but its no different than some of the stops the Orange Line serves, which would also be a destination of this line. It also goes through some healthy residential/commercial areas, which could spurn growth. At one point they discussed extending it to Ford City, which would also be huge. I wish they could extend the Green Line Ashland further west. Oh well.

[Abner]

Has anybody taken the Blue Line to O'Hare this week? They've had a bunch of track closures recently and I'm wondering how the ride out there is now and whether it'll make sense for me to take the train to the airport next week.