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  #3481  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 7:49 AM
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How are these suburban style projects even getting submited for review? Why aren't we calling for these peoples heads. Whoever was involved in approving this project at any level should be fired on the spot.

Any new infill projects should have zero surface parking and zero setbacks. And I'm not just talking about in Oak Park, I mean anywhere within city limits.

I really do hope KJ fires these people and makes them move to Fresno or something.
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  #3482  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 7:51 AM
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Seriously though does anybody mind compling a list of these people who are a part of these design reviews approving these projects? We need to start exposing these people for the frauds they are. These people don't realize they work for a city, not a suburb.
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  #3483  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 2:26 PM
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Go ahead Majin, you should compile a list for us. Please post your results when done.
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  #3484  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 5:31 PM
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I don't wanna do it you guys do it.
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  #3485  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2008, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post
I don't wanna do it you guys do it.
HA!!! that's a good one... good luck with that
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  #3486  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2008, 1:18 AM
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Quote:
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I don't wanna do it you guys do it.


Wow, this is rich.
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  #3487  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2008, 4:27 AM
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Maybe a thread devoted to upcoming design and planning meetings wouldn't be a bad idea. This board has a lot of folks that care about these issues. It would be nice to have thread that talks about potentially problematic developments as a way to focus our energies. It would be a good clearinghouse of information for people that are able to make it to design and planning commission meetings.
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  #3488  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2008, 6:36 AM
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Good idea.
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  #3489  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 4:25 PM
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Why do you oppose Fresh & Easy? This project will activate a currently blighted corner and bring activity and life to a grossly underutilized neighborhood. Why should the applicant go through all the trouble and expense to redesign their building just because you don't like it?

Kevin Johnson has gone to great lengths to attract business to Oak Park. If you support his efforts, why are you trying to sabotage it by opposing Fresh & Easy's current configuration? They're a big company with a lot of experience, and it is their money at risk here, don't you think they would have considered how to best orient the building and told their designer to reflect that best orientation? Why do you think you have the right to oppose this project? Doesn't Fresh & Easy have the right to do what they want with their property?

There's no real reason to oppose this development, other than a bunch of NIMBY attitudes and quibbling about unimportant details.
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  #3490  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 5:23 PM
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Am I starting to rub off on you?
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  #3491  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 6:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Why do you oppose Fresh & Easy? This project will activate a currently blighted corner and bring activity and life to a grossly underutilized neighborhood. Why should the applicant go through all the trouble and expense to redesign their building just because you don't like it?

Kevin Johnson has gone to great lengths to attract business to Oak Park. If you support his efforts, why are you trying to sabotage it by opposing Fresh & Easy's current configuration? They're a big company with a lot of experience, and it is their money at risk here, don't you think they would have considered how to best orient the building and told their designer to reflect that best orientation? Why do you think you have the right to oppose this project? Doesn't Fresh & Easy have the right to do what they want with their property?

There's no real reason to oppose this development, other than a bunch of NIMBY attitudes and quibbling about unimportant details.
?????????????????????????????

I have NEVER seen you post something like this.

You are the biggest NIMBY on this board and all of a sudden you are a captian save-a-bigbusiness? Thats rich.

The design is ass and doesnt even fit the area. Are there even any surface parking lots at all along broadway between Alhambra blvd and Stockton blvd? We have a legitimate reason to call them out it.
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  #3492  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 6:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Why do you oppose Fresh & Easy? This project will activate a currently blighted corner and bring activity and life to a grossly underutilized neighborhood. Why should the applicant go through all the trouble and expense to redesign their building just because you don't like it?

Kevin Johnson has gone to great lengths to attract business to Oak Park. If you support his efforts, why are you trying to sabotage it by opposing Fresh & Easy's current configuration? They're a big company with a lot of experience, and it is their money at risk here, don't you think they would have considered how to best orient the building and told their designer to reflect that best orientation? Why do you think you have the right to oppose this project? Doesn't Fresh & Easy have the right to do what they want with their property?

There's no real reason to oppose this development, other than a bunch of NIMBY attitudes and quibbling about unimportant details.
I don't think many people oppose Fresh and Easy going in there, and the efforts to bring business in are certainly highly valued. I wouldn't call the corner blighted---it's just empty. The opposition is that the Fresh and Easy lot is in the middle of the Broadway Commercial Character Area, and did not follow the Urban Development guidelines for that area. These guidelines specifically do not allow a parking lot on Broadway, and especially on the corner, and require a zero sidewalk setback. All the other buildings that exist and the other new development that is currently planned adjacent this development and along this stretch of the historic district are zero setback and with off-street parking in the back, if any.

That area of Oak Park has the same development guidelines as Midtown (though specific to Oak Park), and surely you wouldn't have seen a surface parking lot on the sidewalk in Midtown proposed in a new development, especially on a main mixed-use street, like J Street for instance. I feel Oak Park deserves no less than that minimum standard.

The residents simply want to move the building up to the sidewalk as per the guidelines, and per basic successful urban planning models. As stated in one of the community meetings, the neighborhood's proposed reorienting of the building would actually save the developer money due to a reduction in number of driveways, no longer a need for utility pole relocation or removal of an existing street tree, put a cement plaza instead of a maintenance-requiring landscape buffer, and remove the need for the twisted cantilevered corner tower with a blind exit door under it which is how they currently touch the Broadway sidewalk, and remove the need for a suburban-style corner pillar sign, which the guidelines also do not allow. The building's own signage would also become far more visible, helping to ensure the success of the business, which everyone wants. The developer is coming into this with an outdated 60's planning model where automobiles rule, but Oak Park and the design guidelines are more forward-looking. Also, more than half of the people in Oak Park don't own cars, either due to cost or by choice.

In my opinion the best model for a successful development of this lot would be a minimal setback (but enough for the street tree canopy) multi-story mixed use with Fresh and Easy and a few other retailers on the ground floor with office and low and medium-income housing above. But as for what was proposed, it just needs to meet the Design Guidelines.
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  #3493  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 6:39 PM
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i think i'm the only one getting the joke here.

that or i woke up on the other side of the universe?
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  #3494  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TowerDistrict View Post
i think i'm the only one getting the joke here.

that or i woke up on the other side of the universe?
I assumed wburg is being held hostage, and the post is his attempt to signal for help.

Or that some serious reverse psychology skills are in action.
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  #3495  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Why do you oppose Fresh & Easy? This project will activate a currently blighted corner and bring activity and life to a grossly underutilized neighborhood. Why should the applicant go through all the trouble and expense to redesign their building just because you don't like it?

Kevin Johnson has gone to great lengths to attract business to Oak Park. If you support his efforts, why are you trying to sabotage it by opposing Fresh & Easy's current configuration? They're a big company with a lot of experience, and it is their money at risk here, don't you think they would have considered how to best orient the building and told their designer to reflect that best orientation? Why do you think you have the right to oppose this project? Doesn't Fresh & Easy have the right to do what they want with their property?

There's no real reason to oppose this development, other than a bunch of NIMBY attitudes and quibbling about unimportant details.

I think we have a case of the "'Body Snatchers". Wburg is just not the same, I think something or somebody has taken over his body.
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  #3496  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 7:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darn Good City View Post
I don't think many people oppose Fresh and Easy going in there, and the efforts to bring business in are certainly highly valued. I wouldn't call the corner blighted---it's just empty. The opposition is that the Fresh and Easy lot is in the middle of the Broadway Commercial Character Area, and did not follow the Urban Development guidelines for that area. These guidelines specifically do not allow a parking lot on Broadway, and especially on the corner, and require a zero sidewalk setback. All the other buildings that exist and the other new development that is currently planned adjacent this development and along this stretch of the historic district are zero setback and with off-street parking in the back, if any.

That area of Oak Park has the same development guidelines as Midtown (though specific to Oak Park), and surely you wouldn't have seen a surface parking lot on the sidewalk in Midtown proposed in a new development, especially on a main mixed-use street, like J Street for instance. I feel Oak Park deserves no less than that minimum standard.

The residents simply want to move the building up to the sidewalk as per the guidelines, and per basic successful urban planning models. As stated in one of the community meetings, the neighborhood's proposed reorienting of the building would actually save the developer money due to a reduction in number of driveways, no longer a need for utility pole relocation or removal of an existing street tree, put a cement plaza instead of a maintenance-requiring landscape buffer, and remove the need for the twisted cantilevered corner tower with a blind exit door under it which is how they currently touch the Broadway sidewalk, and remove the need for a suburban-style corner pillar sign, which the guidelines also do not allow. The building's own signage would also become far more visible, helping to ensure the success of the business, which everyone wants. The developer is coming into this with an outdated 60's planning model where automobiles rule, but Oak Park and the design guidelines are more forward-looking. Also, more than half of the people in Oak Park don't own cars, either due to cost or by choice.

In my opinion the best model for a successful development of this lot would be a minimal setback (but enough for the street tree canopy) multi-story mixed use with Fresh and Easy and a few other retailers on the ground floor with office and low and medium-income housing above. But as for what was proposed, it just needs to meet the Design Guidelines.

Do the guidelines have to be followed? Remember, guidelines are simply that, guidelines.
Regarding the surface lot, it would nice to have some limited parking for the disabled and so that midtowners, and Oak, Curtis, and Tahoe parkers have more options than riding their bikes,walking or taking transit.
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  #3497  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 8:12 PM
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The parking has only been moved to the rear of the building.
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  #3498  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 8:13 PM
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In case it isn't totally obvious, I'm just playing devil's advocate because those are exactly the type of arguments that the Fresh & Easy folks will make at a public meeting.

They will call the corner "blighted" because the term "blighted" really doesn't mean anything except "this piece of property isn't worth as much as it possibly could be." They will oppose design changes because even if the design changes make sense, they will have to pay for the changes and redesigns take time, which costs money.

They will tell city boards and staff that your claims are unfounded, that their design is wonderful as it is, and that you and other neighborhood residents simply oppose them for irrational reasons like fear of change, personal grudges against the developer, or just irrational NIMBYism. They will claim that their plans follow neighborhood guidelines to the letter, even if the guidelines say everything must be painted white and they want to paint it black. Failing that, they will claim that these guidelines are only suggestions, or they are outdated and outmoded throwbacks to old-line thinking, and ask for an exemption.

Even though it has already been made clear that the community wants the parking lot relocated, not eliminated (and their plan includes the same number of parking spaces) they will suggest that the neighborhood opposes parking altogether, which would be unfair to the disabled or those outside walking distance. Notice that BrianSac also brings up the "guidelines" argument: if it's a rule a developer doesn't like, it's just a "guideline," a suggestion, that doesn't have to be followed if it is inconvenient.
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  #3499  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 9:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianSac View Post
Do the guidelines have to be followed? Remember, guidelines are simply that, guidelines.
Regarding the surface lot, it would nice to have some limited parking for the disabled and so that midtowners, and Oak, Curtis, and Tahoe parkers have more options than riding their bikes,walking or taking transit.
Nope, they are just guidelines, not regulations. But it seems you are supposed to use them as some kind of a guide along which to put your 'line', and this project doesn't at all. The guidelines were recently put together by a large City study to create design guidelines that would benefit Oak Park, and not create suburban gaps in Oak Park's potential future density in the historic stretch of Broadway. The developer's property values and customer volume would also benefit if the guidelines were followed, as well as that of neighboring retail, as seen in case studies all over the country of historic main streets that follow these types of infill guidelines.

The neighborhood's proposed building reorientation plan provides 60 parking spaces, including disabled spaces. It also proposes adding 14-16 diagonal parking spaces along 34th street. The developer's current plan provides about 65 spaces. The city requires 60.
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  #3500  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2008, 5:42 PM
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Got a sneak peek at the design Michael Heller has planned for 20th & Capitol:

4 stories, 55 feet tall, 47,000 square feet total: about 32100 sf office and 6000 sf retail.
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