Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[officedweller]

... then someone (City of Richmond) will realize that a twinned tunnel will have a wider footprint and eat up more farmland than a new bridge over top of the old tunnel alignment... and if it's bored, it'll be deeper and have longer approaches than the existing tunnel (especially if the grades have to accommodate rail transit).

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

... then someone (City of Richmond) will realize that a twinned tunnel will have a wider footprint and eat up more farmland than a new bridge over top of the old tunnel alignment... and if it's bored, it'll be deeper and have longer approaches than the existing tunnel (especially if the grades have to accommodate rail transit).

With the recent news, it's pretty evident that the highway footprint and cost and the ALR were just lame excuses. It's always been about not wanting "more trucks" in and through Richmond.

[p78hub]

Approving a new bridge would require the BC NDP to grow some balls and actually risk a major visible infrastructure project. A twinned and refurbished tunnel gives the illusion of progress without any of the potential backlash from environmental groups and local NIMBY's. Out of sight and out of mind. A tunnel is the "safe" choice.

Also, if this project goes Big Dig and ends up costing a fortune, well that's a problem for future governments!

[libtard]

So we get a new tunnel with 6 lanes for regular traffic plus 2 lanes for rapid bus (and hopefully HOV included with that). Do we also get to keep using the existing tunnel? Something tells me the old one will go bye bye

[Klazu]

If it will cost 4 billion, there better be wider highway on both side and a brand spanking new tunnel for both directions. Nothing else makes sense. Port Mann's bridge structure alone was under 1 billion. There is no way 4 billion cannot produce a lot more than just the tunnel unless serious corruption.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Klazu

If it will cost 4 billion, there better be wider highway on both side and a brand spanking new tunnel for both directions. Nothing else makes sense. Port Mann's bridge structure alone was under 1 billion. There is no way 4 billion cannot produce a lot more than just the tunnel unless serious corruption.

well about 3.5 billion gave us a 10 lane bridge and like 30km of upgraded highway. it was a huge project. the bridge probably didn't even hit 1 billion.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

With the recent news, it's pretty evident that the highway footprint and cost and the ALR were just lame excuses. It's always been about not wanting "more trucks" in and through Richmond.

The funny thing is that 2 of the 10 lanes on the bridge were truck climbing lanes, not really general traffic lanes, so a shallower grade tunnel - as a twin - might end up being comparable in capacity to the 10 lane bridge or bigger capacity.

i.e. I don't hear anyone saying "existing 4 lane tunnel + new 4 lane tunnel = 8 lanes" which would be like a bridge without climbing lanes.

I hear 6 lanes or more for the new tunnel alone - which, if added to the 4 lanes in the old tunnel = bigger than the bridge?

Are they going to sneak through more capacity than the bridge?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by p78hub

Approving a new bridge would require the BC NDP to grow some balls and actually risk a major visible infrastructure project. A twinned and refurbished tunnel gives the illusion of progress without any of the potential backlash from environmental groups and local NIMBY's. Out of sight and out of mind. A tunnel is the "safe" choice.

Also, if this project goes Big Dig and ends up costing a fortune, well that's a problem for future governments!

So you're saying this project could be John Horgan's version of the Fast Cat Ferries fiasco that the NDP governments of the '90s gave us. Lol! I totally agree!

[libtard]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

So you're saying this project could be John Horgan's version of the Fast Cat Ferries fiasco that the NDP governments of the '90s gave us. Lol! I totally agree!

Gordon Campbell is that you?

[WarrenC12]

By election time, the NDP could have Patullo well underway, GMT2 starting construction, Broadway subway underway, Surrey Skytrain in early stages, and AFB 7th lane complete.

That's not bad from a transportation perspective. If all the BC Libs can say is "we would have done this, but better", that's a weak argument.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by libtard

Gordon Campbell is that you?

Considering what utter useless overpriced crap the Fast Ferries were, that comment is well justified.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

Considering what utter useless overpriced crap the Fast Ferries were, that comment is well justified.

Look back through his comments he’s clearly got a bc liberals bias

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

By election time, the NDP could have Patullo well underway, GMT2 starting construction, Broadway subway underway, Surrey Skytrain in early stages, and AFB 7th lane complete.

That's not bad from a transportation perspective. If all the BC Libs can say is "we would have done this, but better", that's a weak argument.

well to be fair.
- possibly, but not necessarily.
- const was already started, and they stopped it. unlikely it will start that fast as well.
- was already started before they were elected.
- had more to do with Surrey than the province
- was already started before they were elected.

i wouldn't call it that impressive. they were all already on their way, and 1 case they've now delayed it. at best they are at-par with the previous government, more realistically negative since they stopped and delayed a project for purely political reasons.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by libtard

Gordon Campbell is that you?

Lol! Nope but a big fan of him and his BC Liberals. They guy did a lot of good even if there were a few gaffes along the way.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Klazu

If it will cost 4 billion, there better be wider highway on both side and a brand spanking new tunnel for both directions. Nothing else makes sense. Port Mann's bridge structure alone was under 1 billion. There is no way 4 billion cannot produce a lot more than just the tunnel unless serious corruption.

May I agree? I also question: how many vehicle lanes per tunnel. Normally 3 max, so 6 lanes here? Is that enough? Port Mann has 10 lanes. I should insist on a rapid transit corridor through as mandatory, as well. How this is engineered can be figured out by the engineers.
But, if studies show it's feasible (and the USA is gung ho on it) HSR capacity shoud, IMHO, be integrated,too.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

But, if studies show it's feasible (and the USA is gung ho on it) HSR capacity shoud, IMHO, be integrated,too.

Sorry, but what would HSR capability do? The general consensus is that any line would terminate at either Waterfront via Grandview or Surrey Central; Delta's kind of out of the way for that.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by libtard

Look back through his comments he’s clearly got a bc liberals bias

Actually, as I studied the Fast Ferries Scandal for my university monograph, including reviewing background government documents obtained via the FOI requests, and digging through various archives, to state that the ships were utter, useless crap is an understatement of the century. But we can discuss that in another thread, if you wish.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

Actually, as I studied the Fast Ferries Scandal for my university monograph, including reviewing background government documents obtained via the FOI requests, and digging through various archives, to state that the ships were utter, useless crap is an understatement of the century. But we can discuss that in another thread, if you wish.

No one is disagreeing with you

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sorry, but what would HSR capability do? The general consensus is that any line would terminate at either Waterfront via Grandview or Surrey Central; Delta's kind of out of the way for that.

Yes, you are right. I stand corrected on that. I still think capacity for rrt is necessary though. I'm sure that Canada libe will ultimately push shouth towards Delta.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Yes, you are right. I stand corrected on that. I still think capacity for rrt is necessary though. I'm sure that Canada libe will ultimately push shouth towards Delta.

You may think that, but the reality is a different story. It sounds like you want Skytrain (or something comparable) to travel to the Massey tunnel / bridge / whatever-the-heck-gets-built, presumably primarily following Hwy 99 - most of which travels through the ALR in Richmond. Then there's the fact that outside of it's downtown, most of Richmond is low density, along with South Delta. A WCE commuter type rush hour only train would be useful but anything beyond that...