Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by s211

Ha, in the same light then, all those eastbound vehicles trying to turn left into OV must be going in there to deliver web-ordered food from millennials too lazy to actually cook for once, or leave their apartments and brave the scary outside world because Vision hasn't bubble-wrapped it enough for them.

I know change is hard. It's ok, you'll be fine snowflake.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by s211

Ha, in the same light then, all those eastbound vehicles trying to turn left into OV must be going in there to deliver web-ordered food from millennials too lazy to actually cook for once, or leave their apartments and brave the scary outside world because Vision hasn't bubble-wrapped it enough for them.

Yes and it's particularly bad when there is sort of event on teh vacant city owned lots (Cavalia, Xmas Light Display etc). The city would rather stick their head in the sand and pretend people don't drive to those.

Even more irritating is the continued allowance of parking W.6th between Spruce and Ash. There's never more than a handful of cars there, but the city seems to think the subsequent congestion is worth allowing those special few free parking after 7pm and on Sundays!

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

HWY #1 really busy this morning due to a 6 car pile up and 2 other accidents. Now? Just looks like volume at the Cape Horn merge with WB traffic backed to mid span on the PMB.

If only they would have built the highway 10 lanes between Cape Horn and Grandview. Also, Mary Hill Bypass should be free-flowing 6 lanes, but not in this town.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Klazu

If only they would have built the highway 10 lanes between Cape Horn and Grandview. Also, Mary Hill Bypass should be free-flowing 6 lanes, but not in this town.

yeah, the NFPR, was heavily protested and cancelled. all they did is what the people wanted, even if what they want is

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

yeah, the NFPR, was heavily protested and cancelled. all they did is what the people wanted, even if what they want is

There's really nowhere to run it through New Westminster. You are just stating it as if it were just nimbys at protest. You would have to demolish a shit tonne of buildings along either Front street or Royal Ave., acquire them too. $$$$$

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

There's really nowhere to run it through New Westminster. You are just stating it as if it were just nimbys at protest. You would have to demolish a shit tonne of buildings along either Front street or Royal Ave., acquire them too. $$$$$

true, but with that died all of the upgrades to the Mary Hill Bypass. would have been interesting to see at least some of the project go through, and for the protests to wait until the designs for it came out. I've never seen any designs for the NFPR although i would love to.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

true, but with that died all of the upgrades to the Mary Hill Bypass. would have been interesting to see at least some of the project go through, and for the protests to wait until the designs for it came out. I've never seen any designs for the NFPR although i would love to.

I don't remember the Mary hill bypass being included in the NFPR

[logicbomb]

Solid stop-and-go volume from Brunette to Ironworkers this morning. Never made it above 30km/hr. No accidents...just volume. Was stop-and-go from mid-span of PMB earlier due to the Cape Horn merge.

There's been a significent uptick in traffic from last year. It's safe to say that removing the tolls has probably worsened congestion...Either build more Hwy infrastructure or deter people from driving.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Solid stop-and-go volume from Brunette to Ironworkers this morning. Never made it above 30km/hr. No accidents...just volume. Was stop-and-go from mid-span of PMB earlier due to the Cape Horn merge.

There's been a significent uptick in traffic from last year. It's safe to say that removing the tolls has probably worsened congestion...Either build more Hwy infrastructure or deter people from driving.

"build more highway infrastructure"

See now they tried that with the Port Mann and you're looking at the result of "building more highway infrastructure". "Traffic is really heavy on this massive piece of infrastructure that was supposed to improve congestion so obviously the answer is to build more infrastructure."

I'm not sure but maybe the "deter people from driving" might be a better option. Maybe if there were tolls or something...

[Pinion]

You need to improve transit to make transit more appealing rather than try to force people out of their cars with no good alternative.

Not being able to afford to live close to your work is going to make this worse over time.

[makr3trkr]

It's not completely fair to use the first real full day back to school/work after a long weekend as an example, although certainly it might illustrate a trend.

More likely, I think there is a "tipping point" where only a few cars can have a massive effect on congestion. All it takes is a few large trucks merging poorly (which might have taken other routes previously).

A lot of the traffic avoiding PMB would have ended up on #1 anyway via the Patullo, so I doubt this is a case of people abandoning transit to drive.

Like pointing at snow and saying global warming isn't necessarily real, the system is a lot more complex than just one morning.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

It's not completely fair to use the first real full day back to school/work after a long weekend as an example, although certainly it might illustrate a trend.

More likely, I think there is a "tipping point" where only a few cars can have a massive effect on congestion. All it takes is a few large trucks merging poorly (which might have taken other routes previously).

A lot of the traffic avoiding PMB would have ended up on #1 anyway via the Patullo, so I doubt this is a case of people abandoning transit to drive.

Like pointing at snow and saying global warming isn't necessarily real, the system is a lot more complex than just one morning.

Oh definitely, the proper proof will come a couple of months from now when we can get a better handle on the trends of traffic volume.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

"build more highway infrastructure"

See now they tried that with the Port Mann and you're looking at the result of "building more highway infrastructure". "Traffic is really heavy on this massive piece of infrastructure that was supposed to improve congestion so obviously the answer is to build more infrastructure."

I'm not sure but maybe the "deter people from driving" might be a better option. Maybe if there were tolls or something...

The old PMB was definitely outdated and traffic would sometimes back up into Guildford/Fleetwood on some days. The Gateway Project essentially reduced traffic queues from spanning back into some City Centers. Granted we may eventually see this congestion returning, but we're seemingly maxed out on space, so the only feasible alternative is mobility pricing or tolls. This needs to be imposed soon.

That said, the NDP really dropped the ball here. They were so gung-ho about eliminating the tolls- that they seemingly underestimated the added congestion that would occur. Today is the new norm as many go back to school/work.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

"build more highway infrastructure"

See now they tried that with the Port Mann and you're looking at the result of "building more highway infrastructure". "Traffic is really heavy on this massive piece of infrastructure that was supposed to improve congestion so obviously the answer is to build more infrastructure."

I'm not sure but maybe the "deter people from driving" might be a better option. Maybe if there were tolls or something...

You don't deter people from driving. That is the most idiotic thing to try and do. You provide people with alternative options and let them decide. In the meantime you continue to improve highway and road infrastructure along with public transit and bike infrastructure. You know what they do in Czech republic every time they build a new highway? They modernize the railway that serves the same region to ensure its competitive with the highway. Build a highway for 130kmph, ok modernize the railway to 160kmph. Give people options and people will make the right choice at x time when traveling between a and b points.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

That said, the NDP really dropped the ball here. They were so gung-ho about eliminating the tolls- that they seemingly underestimated the added congestion that would occur. Today is the new norm as many go back to school/work.

well the only reason the GreenDP were elected was because of the promise to get rid of tolls. if it weren't for that, we would have a Liberal government. they played populism politics, kept their promise, and what happens, happens. you have to give them credit keeping that promise. no one has ever accused the NDP, in BC's history, of being a good government. look at the early 70s and the 90s. just a repeat of bad decisions to cling to power that they are afraid of loosing. it took from 47-90 to get into power, and it took from 00-17 to get into power. they want it desperately and will make bad decisions to keep it.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

The old PMB was definitely outdated and traffic would sometimes back up into Guildford/Fleetwood on some days. The Gateway Project essentially reduced traffic queues from spanning back into some City Centers. Granted we may eventually see this congestion returning, but we're seemingly maxed out on space, so the only feasible alternative is mobility pricing or tolls. This needs to be imposed soon.

That said, the NDP really dropped the ball here. They were so gung-ho about eliminating the tolls- that they seemingly underestimated the added congestion that would occur. Today is the new norm as many go back to school/work.

Give it time to sort itself out. Refresh my memory, does the PMB have HOV lanes? I wonder how traffic was on the Patullo?

[Tetsuo]

Trying to be positive here, Friday, yesterday and today were great here in New West.

No more idling trucks and iffy work vans on Royal, but there are a still a few bone heads racing around the side streets going above 50km.

Hwy 1 was a gongshow in the afternoon yesterday, with the merges from Grandview, Willingdon and Kensington.

I just wish they would enforce traffic rules, the HOV had a few SOV hotheads jumping into the faster moving lane across a solid white from standstill traffic.

Ron.

[logicbomb]

PM rush was ugly. Queue for the 152nd exit near Cape Horn spanned back to the King Ed Overpass- and it was stop-and-go across the ENTIRE span of the PMB. Never really picked up speed till I got to 152nd. No accident or stall but just congestion

Clearly an influx of motorists and truck traffic which is really causing choke-points at the Cape Horn. Took me around an hour to get from near Willington and Canada Way to 104th Ave and 144th ST. Would take me 35min at most last September.

I was choked because I turned on AM730 and heard the Patullo was wide open. Would have shortened my commute.

Originally Posted by whatnext

Give it time to sort itself out. Refresh my memory, does the PMB have HOV lanes? I wonder how traffic was on the Patullo?

Barely any enforcement on the HOV lanes, so many single occupancy motorists use those lanes to bypass the congestion which clogs up that lane. The HOV lanes actually cause more issues as it forces vehicles to cut across 3-4 lanes to enter and exit off the freeway. I reckon the MOT could alleviate congestion at the merge points by eliminating the HOV lanes.

[ronthecivil]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

"build more highway infrastructure"

See now they tried that with the Port Mann and you're looking at the result of "building more highway infrastructure". "Traffic is really heavy on this massive piece of infrastructure that was supposed to improve congestion so obviously the answer is to build more infrastructure."

I'm not sure but maybe the "deter people from driving" might be a better option. Maybe if there were tolls or something...

Let's look at the realistic alternatives for those that have been deterred....

They could take transit. I took the skytrain downtown this morning. Apparently the fact that people get passed up at every station from New West to downtown is standard operating procedure. And it's already running at very close to max capacity. So no room there.

They could move close to work. Of course, the argument of buying something smaller is becoming irrelevant when even the cheapest of closest side condos start at 300k, which would require 75k of income just to be MODERATELY affordable.

So what do they get deterred from? Probably even trying.

That's not a good thing.

We need to stop arguing about what infrastructure we need. We need a hell of a LOT more of EVERYTHING. Road, transit, and housing.

[logicbomb]

Highway 1 was backed up to past 168th St

I bypassed that mess by taking the Patullo. Smooth sailing