Saskatoon Construction III

[warrantcowboy]

Originally Posted by roryn1

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...site-1.6060986

darn. What would fit nicely here? Once my vehicle got broken into on 2nd and the perpetrators dumped a few of my belongings right next to here. It’s a area that really needs some love.

That's a roundabout way of saying "Please gentrify this area so I don't have to mingle with the rifraf no more."

[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by warrantcowboy

That's a roundabout way of saying "Please gentrify this area so I don't have to mingle with the rifraf no more."

Is it? I think that's a bit dramatic. The area deserves better than vacant bus barns, and it's a shame that the buildings will sit in limbo for a while longer, especially given that redevelopment plans have been envisioned / in the works for 20 years and have involved significant community input (in part to mitigate the negative aspects of gentrification --- e.g., see the "Community Values" section of the concept plan).

https://www.saskatoon.ca/sites/defau...appendices.pdf

By the way, welcome to the forum! What would you like to see happen with the bus barns?

[roryn1]

Gentrify bus barns? I’m down with that.

This article about Calgary’s downtown’s plans to reduce vacancy with some interesting policy/taxation - would love to see Saskatoon implement even one of these incentives. We truely have to stay competitive to Calgary - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...case-1.6062043

People don’t realize it but BASF was considering moving their mississauga head office to Saskatoon or Calgary two years ago and Calgary won. Nutrien’s been clearly shifting people over to Calgary. We’re a mini Calgary, vs a Regina or Winnipeg. I always forget to check out the Calgary thread.

[warrantcowboy]

Hey, I'm in the same boat of people wanting a more vibrant city core. I'm just trying to understand what your little sob story about your vehicle getting broken into had anything to do with the bus barn.

[Westsider4life]

Originally Posted by warrantcowboy

Hey, I'm in the same boat of people wanting a more vibrant city core. I'm just trying to understand what your little sob story about your vehicle getting broken into had anything to do with the bus barn.

Looking to make friends right off the bat eh?

I have a few thoughts regarding the barns. I live nearby and have a good feel for the area.

1) the 2010 plan was meant to guide development for 5-10 years (see page iii). Earlier plans are 20 years old. I feel that the plan may no longer reflect the contemporary south Caswell demographic (myself included). So, does the plan have the same strength of mandate? Maybe the city can be forgiven for departing from the plan?

2) I think that any park in that location will be a huge safety problem. It’s not about gentrification, it’s about having a park that connects with the train pathway. Not fun.

3) The demo and remediation will be expensive. I think it will serve the community better to allow economics to guide the use of the property and get it built ASAP. I can’t see a Vancouver-eque mixed use space happening this decade. Somewhat car-oriented-but walkable retail with a mini park would bring a lot more to the space and area. It’s not really urban down here yet, but it could be. I thinking something like Edgemont Village in North Van.

[roryn1]

Can you explain the reason why a park wouldn’t be good there? I kind of thought a unique park there would be best since that area lacks park space, but then I have flashbacks of a park in downtown winnipeg near my place that’s basically a massive hangout area for ruckus / not kid friendly because of it :/

Here it is: Central Park - similar distance from The Forks vs our River Landing

[Westsider4life]

Originally Posted by roryn1

Can you explain the reason why a park wouldn’t be good there? I kind of thought a unique park there would be best since that area lacks park space, but then I have flashbacks of a park in downtown winnipeg near my place that’s basically a massive hangout area for ruckus / not kid friendly because of it :/

I think this Winnipeg park would be nicer than whatever the Barns could *likely* produce. Think the park on Sutherland and Aikins St in Winnipeg.

First, the nearby trains and traffic arteries are physically disruptive. The trains would be a hazard to both children safety and quiet enjoyment. The same goes for nearby industrial businesses. There are often engine rev tests and other industrial noise.

Second, the rougher aspects of the west side occur along the tracks. It’s a crime artery of sorts. The tracks connect a lot of rough and sometimes secluded areas. I have personally been mugged twice crossing the tracks by the Barns and I have seen a lot of crime along it.

Finally, it’s like a 5-10 min walk to Ashworth… I can’t see the city making anything that draws locals away from that jewel.

[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by Westsider4life

The demo and remediation will be expensive. I think it will serve the community better to allow economics to guide the use of the property and get it built ASAP.

You raise a lot of solid points. Thanks for sharing your insights.

With respect to allowing economics to steer the way, it seems like that's more or less what has happened / is happening (with the sale of the land falling through after a couple decades of foresight / finger-crossing, high-minded rhetoric, best wishes / consultations and planning). I wonder if you've hit the nail on the head by mentioning remediation issues. If the city is looking to pass remediation costs (and delays) onto a developer, then I can't imagine it will be easy to find a buyer. I wouldn't be surprised if this property is heavily polluted. If that's the case, then it raises the question: why hasn't the city already begun remediation efforts? Again, the answer might simply be that the city hoped to pass that burden off onto a developer. However, this property is and has always been the city's responsibility. I think that if the city is really serious about finding a developer who will replace the bus barns with housing, parks, commercial space, etc., and serious about improving South Caswell, then it might be necessary to accept that responsibility, bite the bullet, and swallow the demolition and remediation costs. That might be a political hot potato no one wants to touch, though. In this article from last year, Ward 2 Councillor Hilary Gough rationalizes delays and argues against "rushing a project of this nature" (https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...ed-by-pandemic). Was this project ever really in danger of being "rushed," though? Gough was re-elected last year. I hope that's not the level of urgency we can continue to expect. However, if the city is looking into using the buildings to store civic and private equipment, then it doesn't look like there's much to be optimistic about here.

These questions (speculations, really) make me think about the city's responsibilities to its other current and future brownfield properties. For example, when the north downtown city yards relocate, I wonder if there are plans in place to help ensure that property doesn't fester like the bus barns. Those plans should probably include remediation work, otherwise we might be stuck with another polluted albatross in an area that is otherwise ready for redevelopment.

I guess the ball is in the city's court now. We'll see their priorities in their action or inaction.

[mmx]

Originally Posted by roryn1

Gentrify bus barns? I’m down with that.

This article about Calgary’s downtown’s plans to reduce vacancy with some interesting policy/taxation - would love to see Saskatoon implement even one of these incentives. We truely have to stay competitive to Calgary - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...case-1.6062043

People don’t realize it but BASF was considering moving their mississauga head office to Saskatoon or Calgary two years ago and Calgary won. Nutrien’s been clearly shifting people over to Calgary. We’re a mini Calgary, vs a Regina or Winnipeg. I always forget to check out the Calgary thread.

Wow, that does not bode well for the still not open Nutrien Tower! Have to agree with you that Council in recent years has become a dithering body.

[Westsider4life]

Originally Posted by Roquentin

You raise a lot of solid points. Thanks for sharing your insights.

With respect to allowing economics to steer the way, it seems like that's more or less what has happened / is happening (with the sale of the land falling through after a couple decades of foresight / finger-crossing, high-minded rhetoric, best wishes / consultations and planning). I wonder if you've hit the nail on the head by mentioning remediation issues. If the city is looking to pass remediation costs (and delays) onto a developer, then I can't imagine it will be easy to find a buyer. I wouldn't be surprised if this property is heavily polluted. If that's the case, then it raises the question: why hasn't the city already begun remediation efforts? Again, the answer might simply be that the city hoped to pass that burden off onto a developer. However, this property is and has always been the city's responsibility. I think that if the city is really serious about finding a developer who will replace the bus barns with housing, parks, commercial space, etc., and serious about improving South Caswell, then it might be necessary to accept that responsibility, bite the bullet, and swallow the demolition and remediation costs. That might be a political hot potato no one wants to touch, though. In this article from last year, Ward 2 Councillor Hilary Gough rationalizes delays and argues against "rushing a project of this nature" (https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...ed-by-pandemic). Was this project ever really in danger of being "rushed," though? Gough was re-elected last year. I hope that's not the level of urgency we can continue to expect. However, if the city is looking into using the buildings to store civic and private equipment, then it doesn't look like there's much to be optimistic about here.

These questions (speculations, really) make me think about the city's responsibilities to its other current and future brownfield properties. For example, when the north downtown city yards relocate, I wonder if there are plans in place to help ensure that property doesn't fester like the bus barns. Those plans should probably include remediation work, otherwise we might be stuck with another polluted albatross in an area that is otherwise ready for redevelopment.

I guess the ball is in the city's court now. We'll see their priorities in their action or inaction.

You have absolutely hit the nail on the head! The city can't have it's cake and eat it too.

I am sorta on board with selling it as-is (w/ rezoning) and see what happens because I feel, as you rightly point out, it will otherwise fester for a generation.

Too bad the school board didn't want it.

[prairieguy]

Does anyone know what is planned for the current reno's happening to the row of brick townhouse apartments across from Nutana Collegiate?? They are keeping exterior (thank goodness) have installed all new black clad windows and major renos happening inside too.

I believe these were rentals before, but if they are being planned to sell as condo's....please confirm with me on here!!! I would be very interested. Looks like a super cool heritage reno!!!

[Echoes]

There's a report being considered at a committee of Council next week that outlines the sequence of steps and major decision points for the arena/entertainment district project:https://pub-saskatoon.escribemeeting...ab=attachments

It includes a helpful infographic:

[roryn1]

In there it mentions that they’ll announce sites if they’ve made agreements with land owners or not. Obviously some negotiation issues - probably with Midtown’s owners for the parking lot is what I’d bet. I bet Midtown ruins the opportunity for the perfect two locations (their north parking lot or toys R Us) and it ends up going at River Landing Parcel D or whatever by the Farmers Market. oh well

[Roquentin]

I'm calling it now --- the new arena will replace the Caswell bus barns!

No just kidding, my money's on the Toys R Us block. Too bad we won't know until the end of the year!

[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by prairieguy

Does anyone know what is planned for the current reno's happening to the row of brick townhouse apartments across from Nutana Collegiate?? They are keeping exterior (thank goodness) have installed all new black clad windows and major renos happening inside too.

I believe these were rentals before, but if they are being planned to sell as condo's....please confirm with me on here!!! I would be very interested. Looks like a super cool heritage reno!!!

My first thought was a condo conversion too, but I don't know for sure. I'm really happy they're getting some love! Doesn't get much better than that in terms of location imo.

It would have been great if the Highpoint condos had happened --- I wish the demand had been there. Not that it's any of my business of course, but I'd be curious to know what the forty prospective buyers of Highpoint condos did with their money instead. Maybe they bought into Escala or River Landing? Maybe they found other digs in Nutana, such as the new townhouse strip on Clarence? If these apartments are being converted to condos, maybe they'd appeal to a would-be Highpoint dweller?

Anyway like I say, I wish a Highpoint crane were keeping the Main Street construction sites company, but at the same time I can't help but wonder if that project's lack of success might have helped boost the fortunes of other nearby developments. I also wonder what the future holds for that land. A hotel? Apartments? Both?

[roryn1]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...QGrufMHgR__gjI

"Although land negotiations have slowed with one owner, other opportunities are being pursued concurrently," read the report.

"Considering the need to advance this initiative, in the coming months, the administration will wrap up all land negotiations whether successful or not and present all available options to council in late 2021."

it’s gotta be the landowners of midtown. greeeedyyy. It’s owned by the pension fund KingSett Capital

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by roryn1

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...QGrufMHgR__gjI

it’s gotta be the landowners of midtown. greeeedyyy. It’s owned by the pension fund KingSett Capital

Can't tell if you're serious or joking.

If serious, do you have some information that leads you to your assertation that KingSett is being greedy? Such as what the city has offered and the conditions of their offer.

Or is it simply a belief that the CoS, as a municipal government, is always fair and reasonable, while all Developers/Owners/Pension Funds are evil?

As someone who has had business dealings with both private developers and municipal governments, I'd rather deal with a developer 90% of the time. Not 100%, simply because there are certainly some untrustworthy developers out there. But, in my experience, most are reasonable people trying to make a fair return on their investment and risk.

[roryn1]

They have a service to the taxpayers of Saskatoon to give up their surface parking lots for $0 - if I was mayor

I hate surface parking lots hehe

[The Bess]

Wouldn't an arena and convention center benefit the midtown plaza? I am just thinking that if something draws more people downtown then that would bring in business so I am not sure that it would be midtown that is the one holding it up, but have been wrong lots of times before.

[prairieguy]

It could be the value they are placing on their surface parking lots. A new parkade should be part of the overall concept plan. The 4 storey one across the street from South end of Midtown needs a complete overhaul....maybe make it into an attrative 6-8 story parkade attached to Midtown or new convention centre???