Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Can confirm as a Torontonian. Big presence of Montrealers here too. That's why the country is still together: the MTL-TO business connection is too strong with too many influential companies and families having a stake in it. Those 50+ flights a day between the two cities aren't running empty.

If Canadian confederation was defined by what happens in Montmagny and Ingersoll then, sure, Canada would have ceased to exist a long time ago. But the people eating in St-Hubert in Montmagny are ultimately paying money to a company in Toronto, and the people buying a big gulp from a Circle K in Ingersoll are lining the pockets of a company in Montreal.

Right on. Btw, not sure how new you are but either way, welcome!

[Nashe]

I know I'll likely get harpooned for this but I admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude when I hear a Montrealer tell a ROQ'er "Pardon me, but you don't live here, you can't comment!" (Paraphrased)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Right on. Btw, not sure how new you are but either way, welcome!

Hipster Duck is actually "un vieux de la vieille" here, as we say!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

I know I'll likely get harpooned for this but I admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude when I hear a Montrealer tell a ROQ'er "Pardon me, but you don't live here, you don't know what it's like." (Paraphrased)

ROQer or ROQois???

[MolsonExport]

The opinions of (Anglo) Montrealers are very often discounted or dismissed by (Franco) Quebeckers. I guess what goes around (generations ago) comes around.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

I wasn't referring to you specifically, don't take it the wrong way. What I meant more specifically is that Québec has lower mobility than other provinces. QC and regional employers use this to their advantage, knowing that they don't need to be as competitive with salary compared to other Canadian cities, because there's less likelihood their employees would up and leave.

This is actually a very good point.

It also applies to the Montreal economy as well as you have a decent number of people there who aren't interested in moving to, say, Toronto, for a promotion. Especially not if they have a young family.

That explains why the typical set-up for a Canadian corporation based in Toronto is to have a VP or a Senior VP based in Montreal who runs the Quebec (or "French Canadian") operations with a reporting relationship of some sort to the head office in Toronto.

Those people typically aren't interested in moving to Toronto even if it means getting the top job, which is why there are almost no francophone Canadians who head up large Canadian corporations based in Toronto.

In this case, it's not really due to discrimination as some might allege, but simply because francophones aren't interested in going there.

Ever since the 1960s, the issue for us has never been access to good jobs in Corporate Canada in Toronto, but rather having more good jobs in Montreal and Quebec, and having access to them.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Can confirm as a Torontonian. Big presence of Montrealers here too. That's why the country is still together: the MTL-TO business connection is too strong with too many influential companies and families having a stake in it. Those 50+ flights a day between the two cities aren't running empty.

If Canadian confederation was defined by what happens in Montmagny and Ingersoll then, sure, Canada would have ceased to exist a long time ago. But the people eating in St-Hubert in Montmagny are ultimately paying money to a company in Toronto, and the people buying a big gulp from a Circle K in Ingersoll are lining the pockets of a company in Montreal.

There is a lot that is true here, but this does not provide evidence that English-speaking Canada (concentrated outside Quebec) and French-speaking Canada (concentrated in Quebec) are very intertwined societally and socially.

Many ex-Montrealers do live in Toronto, but they’re generally the James Cromwells and Mike Antonellis of the world.

I know people will say, “my boss Gord moved to Toronto in 1978 (or 1996!) and he’s still a dyed-in-the-wool Montrealer who eats bagels and smoked meat, and cheers for the Habs over the Leafs!”

This definitely exists, but as noted above this isn’t evidence of advanced integration between the average francophone and anglophone Canadian.

No more than the fact that the Montreal showbiz scene is full of Acadiens from New Brunswick.

You do hear and meet francophones in the halls of business in Toronto - more than you used to. But they don't live in Toronto for the most part. They go back to Montreal at the end of the day on Air Canada Rapidair (or whatever it's called now.)

[begratto]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Also, you're not a montrealer, but right now you're talking like like you have more authority on the city than actual montrealers. Particularly the comment about how dt mtl offices function - thanks for the laugh!

Acajack was right, though. I worked downtown 25+ years, until last year (well, covid excluded)

[Acajack]

Seems like as good a time as any to post this.

https://globalnews.ca/video/8351233/air-...admitting-he-doesnt-need-to-speak-french

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

I know I'll likely get harpooned for this but I admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude when I hear a Montrealer tell a ROQ'er "Pardon me, but you don't live here, you can't comment!" (Paraphrased)

The level of Montreal-ROQ interconnection is a lot higher than Quebec-ROC.

You can live your life in Quebec without interacting much with Anglo-Canada. It’s not really possible to “avoid” the metropolis the same way.

My grandpa recently needed specialized medical care, he ended up in Montreal, where the family (spread over Southern Quebec) went to visit. Just a very recent example…

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by lio45

The level of Montreal-ROQ interconnection is a lot higher than Quebec-ROC.

Which only raises the irony-level, IMHO.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

Which only raises the irony-level, IMHO.

Thing is, I’ve never been looked at as an outsider while in Montreal. This idea that Montreal and Quebec-outside-it are some “two solitudes” is fiction. People from Montreal retire outside it, people from outside it move there for work, etc.

[harls]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

I wasn't referring to you specifically, don't take it the wrong way. What I meant more specifically is that Québec has lower mobility than other provinces. QC and regional employers use this to their advantage, knowing that they don't need to be as competitive with salary compared to other Canadian cities, because there's less likelihood their employees would up and leave.

Also, you're not a montrealer, but right now you're talking like like you have more authority on the city than actual montrealers. Particularly the comment about how dt mtl offices function - thanks for the laugh!

I guess I was a lucky fuck, moving to Montreal knowing limited French. Good thing I picked it up.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

I guess I was a lucky fuck, moving to Montreal knowing limited French. Good thing I picked it up.

It significantly increases the likelihood of staying here long-term, in my personal observation.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by harls

I guess I was a lucky fuck, moving to Montreal knowing limited French. Good thing I picked it up.

You are the exception which makes Acajack's Rule (les deux solitudes).

My nephew who moved to Quebec from Alberta to look after his mother (my sister) seems to be settling in for the long haul too (probably even after she dies). I guess he's another exception.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Thing is, I’ve never been looked at as an outsider while in Montreal. This idea that Montreal and Quebec-outside-it are some “two solitudes” is fiction. People from Montreal retire outside it, people from outside it move there for work, etc.

Yeah, Montreal is full of people who talk like me, act like me, dress like me. Not everyone of course but literally in the hundreds of thousands of them and even a couple million.

Sure there are lots of anglos in Montreal but there are anglos here in the Outaouais (and in the Estrie too) so even if the percentages vary, I don't keep a count of who is speaking in English or other languages - including other ones also spoken in my city too.

I suppose that a Quebec City person (98% likely to be a francophone Québécois) is also used to hearing English from time to time, given how many tourists that city gets.

Montreal is definitely a unique city in the Quebec (and also Canadian) context, but it's not this mysterious otherworldly place for us.

And it certainly doesn't feel like Ontario. Not even an Ontario city with a sizeable francophone minority like Ottawa.

If anything the number of people with accents from France in Montreal is often what stands out more than all of the anglos. (We have people from France here too, but not nearly as "audibly".)

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

I know I'll likely get harpooned for this but I admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude when I hear a Montrealer tell a ROQ'er "Pardon me, but you don't live here, you can't comment!" (Paraphrased)

Haha it's like hearing someone from Albany explain "how it is" in NYC.

Btw, it's not that people from the ROQ can't fit in in mtl, they obviously move here all the time and do well. It's that the ones who can't change their mindset to fit in usually f off back to QC or somewhere off-island pretty quickly, only to cry about it to the other neckbeards on the Québec subreddit.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

The level of Montreal-ROQ interconnection is a lot higher than Quebec-ROC.

You can live your life in Quebec without interacting much with Anglo-Canada. It’s not really possible to “avoid” the metropolis the same way.

My grandpa recently needed specialized medical care, he ended up in Montreal, where the family (spread over Southern Quebec) went to visit. Just a very recent example…

You can add another layer to that when kids start post-secondary education.

I'd estimate that close to half or more of my eldest child's graduating class from high school is studying in Montreal at the moment.

My kid has as many or more friends from Gatineau in Montreal at the moment, as there are still living in Gatineau.

And my kid's classmates at the Université de Montréal are from all over Quebec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Haha it's like hearing someone from Albany explain "how it is" in NYC.

Btw, it's not that people from the ROQ can't fit in in mtl, they obviously move here all the time and do well. It's that the ones who can't change their mindset to fit in usually f off back to QC or somewhere off-island pretty quickly, only to cry about it to the other neckbeards on the Québec subreddit.

It's a tale that's as old as time.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Rat_de_ville_et_le_Rat_des_champs

And no, the tunnel in the east end is not named for Jean de La Fontaine.

He never visited the city!

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Poutine is pretty big in Anglo-Canada, and not well known in the US.

I'd say that its one of the rare (only?) examples of a Quebecois thing becoming prevalent in Anglo-Canada without being also becoming prevalent in the US at the same time.

There are a number of restaurants in Ontario in areas with lots of Franco-Ontarians that serve Quebec dishes or prepare meals like you'd see in Quebec. Normally they aren't as good as what you get in Quebec but they're okay. Quebec restaurants have higher standards for meals for the most part.

In Timmins I can get poutine at so many places. I can get smoked meat sandwiches, fèves au lard (baked beans), cretons, grenache, pea soup, pouding chômeur, tourtière, pizza and spaghetti that are done Quebec-style, hot chicken sandwich Quebec-style, sugar pie, sucre à la crême and a lot more. I enjoy eating all of those things but they are normally much better at restaurants in Quebec.