Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[flipper316]

https://www.richmond-news.com/new-fraser...-be-a-choice-of-three-options-1.23636319

Ugh. Let's just throw another 40 million at this piece of shit tunnel.

[casper]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://www.richmond-news.com/new-fraser...-be-a-choice-of-three-options-1.23636319

Ugh. Let's just throw another 40 million at this piece of shit tunnel.

for that price can they upgrade it to servive a quake? If so a smaller bridge plus the tunnel sounds fine. However let’s get on with building something.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Don't we have to retire the tunnel anyway? I sincerely hope they don't use that as an excuse to underbuild the bridge.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Don't we have to retire the tunnel anyway? I sincerely hope they don't use that as an excuse to underbuild the bridge.

The thing with the tunnel is if we ever have a major earthquake everyone in it is dead.

We could likely keep maintaining it though assuming no earthquakes.

The upgrades will help little. You can't do much for 40 million, it was never designed to handle a major earthquake.

[officedweller]

The problem is that the remedial work to stabilize the tunnel for an earthquake involves piling up fill adjacent up the tunnel ("Ground Improvement Retrofit") to quell liquefaction - and that may create problems building a parallel tunnel on a compact right-of-way (ie preserving farmland and parkland).

[flipper316]

https://www.peacearchnews.com/news/its-f...l-stresses-need-for-new-massey-crossing/
Yet again more hard on at the end of the article to accommodate skytrain. What are they smoking?

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://www.peacearchnews.com/news/its-f...l-stresses-need-for-new-massey-crossing/
Yet again more hard on at the end of the article to accommodate skytrain. What are they smoking?

The factor of how much mayors support transit/densification is not proportional to how practical it is in that area.

[officedweller]

From Richmond News

Richmond council weighs in on tunnel replacement
Maria Rantanen
Richmond News
March 20, 2019 07:00 AM

In replacing the George Massey Tunnel, Richmond council would prefer a tunnel to a bridge, an increase in transit services,
reduction in truck traffic and improvements to the congestion in Steveston.

This is the message the Ministry of Transportation has heard from the City of Richmond as it undergoes an 18-month reboot
of the replacement project for the perpetually congested tunnel from Steveston to Ladner.

The ministry has asked the city to give further feedback by April 1 and council referred this back to staff to reflect
their any additional comments to the ministry.

The ministry is currently talking with municipalities, First Nations and other regional stakeholders and by November it
expects to have a shortlist of options for the George Massey Crossing. After an option is chosen, it will take another year
to prepare the business case, explained ministry staff to council on Monday.

Much of the discussion and comments to the ministry staff centred around congestion on the Richmond side including the Steveston overpass.
...

https://www.richmond-news.com/news/richm...74?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[flipper316]

More studies. Shocking. That's all the NDP knows how to do. If the liberals were still here the new bridge would've been 1/4 done by now.

[Metro-One]

Well, from what I read in the report finally released last December expect all these new options to be severely value engineered / under built. Ironically the rapid bus component may suffer the most (as in the may just simply retain the current highway shoulder doubling as a bus lane...)

Any plan that retains the existing tunnel is majorly shortsighted and will cost the province double or more in the long run since it will still need to eventually be replaced. By the time any half assed doubling project opens the original tunnel will be between 65 and 70 years old...

Build it once, build it right.

Also if Richmond seriously wants to see less trucks entering their city then maybe they should stop allowing the construction of new industrial parks??? Just an idea.

[interrobang]

I've started hearing rumblings that the mayors of the surrounding municipalities will be requesting an 8 lane bored tunnel due to it having the least environmental impacts. This flies in the face of the report which states that a bored tunnel is more costly than a bridge, and may not be technically feasible due to the geometry required.

[Metro-One]

Why do people want a tunnel rather than a bridge??

Bridges are quite beautiful looking structures and often become celebrated symbols of their surroundings after being constructed.

Seems like the odd phobia seen towards tall towers.

Fear them before being built, celebrate them after completion...

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by interrobang

I've started hearing rumblings that the mayors of the surrounding municipalities will be requesting an 8 lane bored tunnel due to it having the least environmental impacts. This flies in the face of the report which states that a bored tunnel is more costly than a bridge, and may not be technically feasible due to the geometry required.

Are you sure they mean 8 lanes bored, not an immersed tube like the current GMT? That would be an immense amount of work or a really huge TBM.

I don't think anyone in the tunnelling industry would disagree that this sounds very expensive.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Well, from what I read in the report finally released last December expect all these new options to be severely value engineered / under built. Ironically the rapid bus component may suffer the most (as in the may just simply retain the current highway shoulder doubling as a bus lane...)

Any plan that retains the existing tunnel is majorly shortsighted and will cost the province double or more in the long run since it will still need to eventually be replaced. By the time any half assed doubling project opens the original tunnel will be between 65 and 70 years old...

Build it once, build it right.

Also if Richmond seriously wants to see less trucks entering their city then maybe they should stop allowing the construction of new industrial parks??? Just an idea.

They want to reduce truck congestion, not number for the most part.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Why do people want a tunnel rather than a bridge??

Bridges are quite beautiful looking structures and often become celebrated symbols of their surroundings after being constructed.

Seems like the odd phobia seen towards tall towers.

Fear them before being built, celebrate them after completion...

It looks big, which is 'wrong' for a quiet neighborhood.

Out of sight, out of mind, I guess.

[Bobert]

Originally Posted by interrobang

I've started hearing rumblings that the mayors of the surrounding municipalities will be requesting an 8 lane bored tunnel due to it having the least environmental impacts. This flies in the face of the report which states that a bored tunnel is more costly than a bridge, and may not be technically feasible due to the geometry required.

I really doubt a bored tunnel is on the table. Cost aside, the grade from the tunnel portal to Steveston interchange would be very rough to navigate.

[officedweller]

This is why they may be pushing for a bored tunnel -
because it doesn't "touch" the water, avoiding Federal environmental review.

The Liberal's 10 lane bridge did not touch the water.

Delta mayor closing in on sending letter to Premier John Horgan about future of Massey Tunnel
By Richard Zussman
March 22, 2019
Online Journalist based at B.C. Legislature Global News

Delta Mayor George Harvie says a group of mayors and First Nation leaders along the Highway 99 corridor are close to sending premier John Horgan a letter about their vision for the future of the Massey Tunnel.

...

But there are concerns from Harvie that any project touching the water could lead to significant delays.

“We respect our First Nations, as well. They can’t have a solution that touches the water,” Harvie said. “We were back in Ottawa three or four weeks and we talked to key ministers about that. If the solution from the province touches the water in any way, it will trigger an environmental review that has a five- to eight-year timeline and could be a no. That will be a big problem for us.”
...

https://globalnews.ca/news/5087326/delta-mayor-letter-john-horgan-massey-tunnel/

[interrobang]

Originally Posted by officedweller

This is why they may be pushing for a bored tunnel - because it doesn't "touch" the water, avoiding Federal environmental review.

That's the EXACT reason I was given last week by one of the mayors. That avoiding another round of federal reviews moves construction closer. Albeit without consideration on the feasibility of the method, or cost impacts. In a room full of engineers it certainly raised a few eyebrows

[Metro-One]

Almost as if they should simply reduce the current plan by two lanes and move ahead with the original concept...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yeah, the anti-bridge mayors are really twisting their argument into a pretzel on this one.

[Cypherus]

I'm always for a bridge but I think a Tunnel may suffice. The image below from long ago shows such a wide span of the cable stayed bridge exceeding beyond Port Mann bridge length and tower height, along with deep pilings due to soft soil issue in the area, that it did originally look like a lofty mega project.

Image removed as it does not comply with forum citation requirements

Given the counterflow lanes on Alex Fraser currently under construction, I am conceded that a 6-8 lane tunnel for the 99 would be plenty good enough, given proper attention to seismic tolerances as well.