Winnipeg | The Forks Market | Railside at The Forks

[bomberjet]

Yes dCondo, SkyCity, etc received or will receive public money from residential grants.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by crocket

Ya, TIF is a deferral program but developers can build whatever product level they want. There was an assumption by others that there was a "shoestring budget" for projects at the Forks and you can't build without public money which are both untrue and unfounded.

Exactly. The fact that they are dividing up the land into small chunk as opposed to a few big swaths means more players (developers) will be able to submit PROPOSALS, and only the best will get chosen. Let's not forget that The Forks is only selling land once they have seen proposals. The developers do not just automatically get land to do with as they please.

[Cyro]

DRDG Program

A little more info:

Page 7..onward ....
https://www.ida-downtown.org/eweb/do...treVenture.pdf

Both Condominium & Rental Residential Projects are eligible;

Has to be new residential units either new construction or conversion of non residential;
Rehabilitation of existing residential units are eligible if they have been vacant for 12 months; Mixed use buildings are encouraged -the commercial taxes are applied toward the “incremental taxes” for purposes of calculating the grant;
The program is limited to properties within the downtown boundary as defined by By-Law

How the Grants are Calculated:

• The grants are funded by the incremental taxes generated post development;
• Condominium Projects receive the 1 st year’s incremental taxes for 10 years, up the
to maximum allowable grant;
• Rental Projects receive the 1styear’s incremental taxes for 15 years, to to the
maximum allowable grant.

Example:
Post Development Taxes – Predevelopment Taxes = 1st Year Incremental Taxes ..Con't

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Yes dCondo, SkyCity, etc received or will receive public money from residential grants.

yup...basically every residential unit built in downtown Winnipeg since 2007 has received public money...300 main will as well.

some projects such as true north square and centrepoint have recieved other money on top of that for things like parkades, skywalks and plazas.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Cyro

^ any idea, when we'll see the first projects begin moving forward, 2 years? longer..

I think they want to move as quickly as possible but my guess would be 2 years before shovels get in the ground....its a big process.

[Urban recluse]

It is also in Winnipeg where things move pretty slow for the most part.

[Tacheguy]

any development at the Forks is first subject to the Forks governance requirements and board approval. all of that takes place in prior to city council processes. it is a good process in my opinion but a lengthy process.

[esquire]

It's lengthy, but the process has produced some pretty good results.

[Tacheguy]

hmm.. I think I may have used the word process too oftern there. starting to sound like Cheveldayoff..

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's lengthy, but the process has produced some pretty good results.

Such as?

[crocket]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Yes dCondo, SkyCity, etc received or will receive public money from residential grants.

Those are incremental tax grants, not public money in the manner of funds coming out of the public coffers and it is offered as an incentive. I don't consider the DRDG public money. You certainly wouldn't build based on that alone.

[crocket]

Decent article about low rise and density:
http://business.financialpost.com/fp...using-shortage

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Such as?

The entire site... it's been pretty carefully curated with uses that complement each other. It's remarkable how few screw-ups there have been in terms of deciding what to put at The Forks.

[bomberjet]

Yeah, the entire Forks site has worked out fairly well. The latest round of reno's has gone fairly well. Regardless of your personal opinion on CMHR, that's pretty solid. Also the refusal of the whole water park thing is good.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Yeah, the entire Forks site has worked out fairly well. The latest round of reno's has gone fairly well. Regardless of your personal opinion on CMHR, that's pretty solid. Also the refusal of the whole water park thing is good.

Actually the CMHR is living up to expectations and of course none of it in a good way, visits down, never ending property tax squabble, dubious future....

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by crocket

Those are incremental tax grants, not public money in the manner of funds coming out of the public coffers and it is offered as an incentive. I don't consider the DRDG public money. You certainly wouldn't build based on that alone.

its not a grant, but a TIF is money out of the government's pocket, so it is a subsidy.

You wouldn't build on it alone, but without it none of the residential projects in downtown since 2007 would have happened.....or very, very few...none of the big ones....skycity, 300 main, D, glasshouse wouldnt even be proposed without it.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

hmm.. I think I may have used the word process too oftern there. starting to sound like Cheveldayoff..

good one.

[Gm0ney]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

any development at the Forks is first subject to the Forks governance requirements and board approval. all of that takes place in prior to city council processes. it is a good process in my opinion but a lengthy process.

Let's just hope there's no overlap in the group that selects what's built at the Forks with the group that decided piles of gravel would make a nice 'garden' on Waterfront Drive.

BTW: Is all the activity wearing those hills down yet?

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by crocket

Sorry no, but vinyl, stucco and other cheap materials are indeed lighter, but they are not great design. In fact, they aren't even options for that neighborhood. I never said pre finished wood wasn't lighter, it's just that brick, stone, glass, concrete are standard finishes on condo and other commercial buildings. I think vinyl is for super cheap construction in the suburbs. I can't believe you're even suggesting it. You want to sell wood buildings with fake wood siding, in a historical district downtown. That's insane.

Originally Posted by crocket

Ya, TIF is a deferral program but developers can build whatever product level they want. There was an assumption by others that there was a "shoestring budget" for projects at the Forks and you can't build without public money which are both untrue and unfounded.

There has to be demand for high end housing. In a cheaper market like Winnipeg, the desire to live downtown at all preceeds the desire for high end living downtown.

In a city like Toronto or Vancouver, the demand for high-end downtown living exceeded the demand for reasonably priced downtown homes/condos.

If the poor/average/above-average-not-rich haven't been convinced that downtown is desirable, how can you get the rich to live downtown?

What you build will reflect that.

If the well-heeled person was suddenly showing up downtown in herds, you'd instantly see high end living sprout up. When you can charge 700k for a 700 sf unit, even Winnipeg economics can work out.

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

We need plenty of high end homes in this area; the higher the incomes, the more businesses will be attracted to the vicinity.

Absolutely. That's the challenge...

Originally Posted by trueviking

its not a grant, but a TIF is money out of the government's pocket, so it is a subsidy.

You wouldn't build on it alone, but without it none of the residential projects in downtown since 2007 would have happened.....or very, very few...none of the big ones....skycity, 300 main, D, glasshouse wouldnt even be proposed without it.

Quoting again, because Viking has said it several times and it doesn't seem to be sinking in lol...

[Tacheguy]

I guess the riverwalk is porked..