[St. John's] Transport development (Highways, Airport, and Public Transit)

[cam477]

Great post AnUrbanLife. I also think the biggest reason to invest in cycling is to increase health and wellness of the population. It needs to be safe and accessible or people just aren't going to consider it a viable option.

As for Water Street... I don't think it needs bike lanes. I cycle both as a means of commuting and pleasure and streets like Water Street with their slow moving traffic are not the problem. I think Sharrows are all you need. Just a little reminder to motorists that cyclists have just as much right to be on the road as them.

[cam477]

Also, don’t get me wrong, St. John’s will never have cycling rates even close to cities like Amsterdam or Copenhagen. But that’s not a reason to not invest in the infrastructure. I haven’t ridden public transportation in St. John’s in over a decade. I live downtown, own car and prefer active commuting for short distances. Even if St John’s had a great public transit system, I might never use it. But I still recognize that we need to invest in it. I also have never played a game of tennis in my life… but I recognize that we need tennis courts because some people enjoy that form of exercise and we need recreation infrastructure.

[PoscStudent]

Not much sense to throw money at public transit if we can't get solid ridership.

[mrjanejacobs]

AnUrbanLife / cam477 - good posts. Really good posts.

And I think arguing whether we need bike lanes on Water Street, as Copes and Signal brought up, is a totally fair point of debate.

I proposed having them on Water Street for a few reasons: if we are undergoing a retrofit of Water Street for transit and sidewalk widening, it seemed like a good opportunity to consolidate costs and install bike lanes. Also, I think there is something to be said about visibility of bike lanes. Highly-visible lanes become a way of advertising and promoting active transport.

I would argue against having bike lanes on Harbour because I really don't think people would use them; low visibility, higher speeds for cars, more exposure to weather, farther away, etc.

Duckworth would be fine. I propose Water just because it would be cheaper to install there with cost consolidation. Plus Water is straighter and less windy (with varying widths) like Duckworth. One thing is clear, either Duckworth or Water needs to be outfitted with bike lanes. We need bike lanes on one of our two downtown streets.

In terms of Sharrows - they work well once there is already a bike culture. I am not convinced they will work in St.John's (and so far, they haven't where they have been installed). Motorists in St.John's have really hostile feelings toward cyclists, unfortunately. I can't count the number of times I've been yelled at by a driver in St.John's, or honked at (yet never does this happen in Montreal). Also - we need to provide safe and comfortable bike lanes for new cyclists/beginners. I am confident sharing the road with cars as I do it all the time and I know how to manoeuvre in chorus with automobiles. But it can be scary and it's not for the faint of heart, haha, even in Montreal. Moreover, it makes cyclists feel insecure but ALSO it adds to the hostility that motorists have for cyclists and vice versa (which is exactly what we don't need in St.John's, haha).

But AnUrbanLife is so true - I take my bike to go to the grocery store, to the park, to school, to work (if I have a job, ahha), to run errands, to go to bars (and to come home from bars - not recommended for beginners). You can save thousands of dollars per year - it's really remarkable.

[mrjanejacobs]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Not much sense to throw money at public transit if we can't get solid ridership.

Ridership will never be established unless there is first investment, that's clear.

Why wouldn't we get "solid" ridership? It's impossible to know. The service currently being offered is antiquated.

One thing is for sure, we will never have solid ridership unless we 'throw' money at it. haha And getting people out of their cars and onto transit is important enough that it's worth the risk of trying.

[SignalHillHiker]

I can see what you mean about the infrastructure needing to come first.

I firmly believe that LRT lines, for example, CREATE density where they travel, and you don't need to wait until there is density to build them.

So this'd be the same thing, just replacing ridership for density.

[techie]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I firmly believe that LRT lines, for example, CREATE density where they travel, and you don't need to wait until there is density to build

I agree with this totally. I always feel bad for business owners who operate 1.5 blocks away from where major transit lines get installed. Invariably, competitors who had the fortune to be located on the line will see huge upticks in business.

[cam477]

Regarding sharrows - I agree with mrjanejacobs. Sharrows are only one piece of the puzzle and if you don't instill a culture of respect for cyclists they can potentially do more harm than good.

That's why we need to look at the other ways we can improve cycling infrastructure. Completely separated bike lanes, that motorists cannot use, are obviously the most effective at creating a safe enjoyable way for cyclists to get around. You see these in Europe and in some NA cities where a bike lane is segregated from the road by a median or railing. We do sort of have that along the cross town arterial but it could be better marked and segregated from pedestrians. While this is the best form of cycling infrastructure it’s also obviously the most expensive. The reality is there isn't going to be funding for this kind of infrastructure anytime soon. Which I understand.

People then assume the only other option is paint a couple bike lanes that are not segregated from motorists and a few sharrows and call it a day. However, I think there are lots of other things we can invest in to create a cycling culture. In a number of European countries they teach cycling safety courses to elementary school children at school. By the time you’re 10 or 12 years old everybody in the country knows how to ride a bike and understands the rules of the road. Another component that I think is critical is that a knowledge of how to share the roads with cyclists should be built into the courses and tests that motorists need to take to get a license. I’d say upwards of 90% of motorists in St. John’s have absolutely no idea what the hand signals of cyclists mean. I’d also say a strong majority genuinely feel bicycles are for children and sidewalks. Physical infrastructure is not the only thing needed to change those attitudes. They need a public awareness campaign. I feel they should run a few ads to help motorists and cyclists understand that they both have the right to be on the road and they both have the right to respect one another on the road. It’s a two-way street (excuse the pun); cyclists need to take responsibility and understand their obligations as well. You can’t be weaving in and out of traffic and ignoring the rules of the road on a bike or a car.

Another barrier to cycling (especially given our topography) is the fact that people can’t show up to an office job covered in sweat. I feel the provincial government needs to recognize that a population that actively commutes to work is going to cost the healthcare system a lot less than a population that only drives. It’s a lot cheaper for the gov to offer incentives and rebates to companies to install showers and change rooms in some of the large office buildings in the city than it is to hire more cardiovascular surgeons and construct more ORs. On a positive note – I am told there will be showers for this reason in one of our large new office towers currently under construction!

At the end of the day, people are not going to do something if it’s just too inconvenient to justify. The benefits (savings, health, environment, etc) have to outweigh the costs. I think people would be surprised at just how average some cyclists are in other cities. We’re not talking about exceptional athletes, just regular people.

Anyways, that’s my cycling rant haha.

[cam477]

Has anyone here ever heard of Critical Mass. Pretty well all cities on earth have them on the last Friday of every month. Cyclists in that city will meet usually around 5 or 6 o'clock and ride as one large group around the city to promote awareness for cycling. They’re loads of fun whether you’re a cyclists or not. If you're ever in a major city on the last Friday of a month you have to get your hands on a bike and give it a try. Here are a couple pics of critical masses I've done in Vancouver and San Fran. The one in Vancouver was apparently 3-4 thousand cyclists. We had a massive police escort the whole way and were treated pretty well (even by the motorists whose commute you are making 20mins or so longer while they wait for you to pass).

We have one in St. John’s. I’ve never done it but it’s on my list of things to do this summer. I think we only get about 12-20 riders out. But it still might be a laugh. They meet at the colonial building and only in the summer months.







Edit: The pics are mine

[SignalHillHiker]

You take AWESOME pics, Cam.

[cam477]

Thanks!!

I just noticed in the third one that at least one person in the picture is 100% naked haha. But you can't see anything so I think it's alright haha.

The CM I did in Van was much larger but the one in SF was full of way more interesting folks haha.

Edit: I lied... he's wearing his helmet.

[SignalHillHiker]

It doesn't break the rules when they're hot. I think that's how it works.

[Townie709]

I don't know what the connection is between cycling and nudity, but the two always seem to go hand in hand

[SignalHillHiker]

I think it's because the sense of freedom you get from it is second only to skinny dipping in cool water.

[jeddy1989]

I hope they wash first ..

[JCE]

Carrick Drive traffic calming plan has been posted on the city website. Looks like 5 sets of temporary speed cushions (bumps), a permanent roundabout @ wedgewood complex and 2 mini roundabouts like the one on old Topsail road. After watching some manoeuvre around the roundabout on Old Topsail its going to take some getting used too for some with 3 on the one street.

http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...aker%20St..pdf
http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...nd%20Dr._0.pdf
http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...shire%20Pl..pd
http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...nd%20Dr._0.pdf

[Architype]

That second photo is taken on the Granville Bridge, a major artery in Vancouver, and as you can see they completely took over the bridge. I think cycling is a great idea obviously, but unless I was on a bike I would stay as far away from Critical Mass as I can. The most alarming thing about cyclists is when they go sailing through stop signs with complete disregard for the law, coming close to being a major fatality. I've witnessed it a number of times while driving, and unless I came to a screeching halt (where I had the right-of-way) there would have been a major accident.

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by JCE

Carrick Drive traffic calming plan has been posted on the city website. Looks like 5 sets of temporary speed cushions (bumps), a permanent roundabout @ wedgewood complex and 2 mini roundabouts like the one on old Topsail road. After watching some manoeuvre around the roundabout on Old Topsail its going to take some getting used too for some with 3 on the one street.

http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...aker%20St..pdf
http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...nd%20Dr._0.pdf
http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...shire%20Pl..pd
http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...nd%20Dr._0.pdf

grrr.. Why must they insist on slowing me down on Carrick Drive..

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs

Ridership will never be established unless there is first investment, that's clear.

Why wouldn't we get "solid" ridership? It's impossible to know. The service currently being offered is antiquated.

One thing is for sure, we will never have solid ridership unless we 'throw' money at it. haha And getting people out of their cars and onto transit is important enough that it's worth the risk of trying.

For one thing there is little demand for a service. Despite Metrobus not being considered a great transit system, there are few complaints about it. St. John's doesn't have enough traffic congestion, and Metrobus can't get out of that congestion anyways, for most people to consider the idea of getting on a bus as opposed to driving.

I saw somewhere recently about how Halifax has increased spending on their transit considerably in recent years and ridership hasn't changed.

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by JCE

Carrick Drive traffic calming plan has been posted on the city website. Looks like 5 sets of temporary speed cushions (bumps), a permanent roundabout @ wedgewood complex and 2 mini roundabouts like the one on old Topsail road. After watching some manoeuvre around the roundabout on Old Topsail its going to take some getting used too for some with 3 on the one street.

http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...aker%20St..pdf
http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...nd%20Dr._0.pdf
http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...shire%20Pl..pd
http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...nd%20Dr._0.pdf

Have had several hairy encounters on Old Topsail Road since it was installed. I actually wrote a member of the city traffic committee about it, but never got a response. There needs to be an education programme.