NEW YORK | 432 Park Avenue (Drake Hotel dev.) | (1,396) FT / 432 M | 89 FLOORS

[RobertWalpole]

As I've said, if a 600 foot version of what's planned were being built on the site of a former parking lot between 8th and 9th Avenues, people would say "not bad." 57th and Park deserved an icon, however, and height alone does not make a box an icon.

[RobertWalpole]

Originally Posted by Loqy Lion

Are those official renderings?

No. But it's the general idea.

[NEWyorkSKYSCRAPER]

I just realized that at 1420 feet, this building would surpass the new one world trade center as the tallest building in the city, not withstanding spires. That's a crazy thought.

[Loqy Lion]

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole

As I've said, if a 600 foot version of what's planned were being built on the site of a former parking lot between 8th and 9th Avenues, people would say "not bad." 57th and Park deserved an icon, however, and height alone does not make a box an icon.

What if it were clad in marble and ivory?

[RobertWalpole]

Originally Posted by NEWyorkSKYSCRAPER

I just realized that at 1420 feet, this building would surpass the new one world trade center as the tallest building in the city, not withstanding spires. That's a crazy thought.

Value-engineering is driving this project. Let's pray that it's shortened to under 900 feet.

[Loqy Lion]

Originally Posted by NEWyorkSKYSCRAPER

I just realized that at 1420 feet, this building would surpass the new one world trade center as the tallest building in the city, not withstanding spires. That's a crazy thought.

As I've told Rob, this building signals a new era in New York City.

We aren't afraid to build high anymore. I'd say that in 15-20 years, we'll have more than 25 towers over 1,000 feet by roof.

Get ready, boys. We're about to witness a Hell of a ride.

[JayPro]

The middle rendering there points to something interesting, namely that this tower, box or not , looks to be entrapped in a cubic mesh. Way cool, that.
That other two don't seem to show as much detail; but I agree that if the dimensions are as accurately portrayed as has been cited, that alone makes it unique.
I do hope this is the beginning of somewhat official. More details can only be good news in my estimation.

[Loqy Lion]

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole

Value-engineering is driving this project. Let's pray that it's shortened to under 900 feet.

If they go cheap on the facade, count me in your camp.

Macklowe will pay!

[RobertWalpole]

Originally Posted by JayPro

The first rendering there points to something interesting, namely that this tower, box or not , looks to be entrapped in a cubic mesh. Way cool, that.
That other two don't seem to show as much detail; but I agree that if the dimensions are as accurately portrayed as has been cited, that alone makes it unique.
I do hope this is the beginning of somewhat official. More details can only be good news in my estimation.

Consider that a mere massing design of the basic shape. If that excites you, then all is well.

[Mr. Lion]

I made this to show a rough skyline impact. The dimensions of the model are not perfect but i think its good enough to show the impact.

[Alliance]

One word: LMAO.

It might actually be interesting if that external grid was structural, but it doesn't seem to be attached to the actual building inside at all. Regardless its not clear what sort of materials will be used, and there is no hint to the actual facade of the building, which makes me assume it has been largely abandoned architecturally, much like Trump World Tower.

I have no problem with boxes, in fact I prefer them, but I do have a problem with bad boxes. The massing is atrocious and completely out of scale with the area. That this is set back so far from the street is ridiculous. The glass box seems to be a vanilla ripoff and seems to bear no actual function to the building itself. The whole thing seems cheap, unplanned, and just unfeasible/so-expensive-its-unsellable (80 South Street comes to mind). If there wasn't a model shot in there, I would assume outright that these renders were fake and designed by some 5th grader.

Sadly, I think this lot may continue to be undeveloped for some time.

[RoldanTTLB]

How do you build a 1400ft tall building in scale with the area, exactly? I mean, do you build it right next to 1WTC? How do you feel about ESB? It's completely out of scale with the area. I don't get that argument. Additionally, if the tower is slender and built with a completely glass skin that is ultra-clear, you wouldn't even see it on the skyline. It'd be a mirage. I think that could be interesting. That said, I guess we'll have to see. They're not doing additional demo at the site right now for it to stay undeveloped, though.

[JayPro]

It's not as much a matter of what excites me as what can be done with the simplest geometric shape that a skyscraper can assume.
For instance, even if Gehry's tower were a simple box--which of course it isn't--but the facade were kept as is, people would marvel at it still. Mr. Viñoly, then, IMO cannot be so foolish as to put up a 1,400'+ insipid twig. His reputation is on the line with each project he unveils; and surely he must feel beholden to meet serious demands. How much truer can this be if his task is to create a presence in one of NYC's most high-powered magnets of affluence?

I'm also simply going to reemphasize my observation of what looks like meshing in that close render...only because I really like it.
Unofficial? Okay.
A massing model? Agreeable.
But the fact that it's there to me bespeaks more than an unadorned box any way you slice it.

Finally, as a rhetorical answer to the dog-eared, monotonous argument
of whether spires, spikes, needles, beacons, tacky lighting displays ad nauseam certify iconic status...
Well...I say the following: GE in Rockefeller Center, anyone?? Not a box? True that; but an undeniable landmark it is.
Of course, it can bel said also that funky geometry doesn't guarantee a pleasing visual impact. For instance, I really don't know if a twisting-torso kind of thing can work in any American skyline. But I guess that depends on a lot of opinions.

Edit: Might I remind y'all that this is by admission nothing official.
But right now I must confess my wonder at how opinions here can make such beautiful hairpin turns from second-guessing without official particulars to rampant over-analysis based on a vague model.

2¢

[RobertWalpole]

Originally Posted by Alliance

....Sadly, I think this lot may continue to be undeveloped for some time.

I wish you were right. However, the reality is that people from all over the world will line-up and buy the 100 or so apartments in this idiotic tower at $5k/sf.

[Alliance]

Originally Posted by RoldanTTLB

How do you build a 1400ft tall building in scale with the area, exactly? I mean, do you build it right next to 1WTC? How do you feel about ESB? It's completely out of scale with the area. I don't get that argument. Additionally, if the tower is slender and built with a completely glass skin that is ultra-clear, you wouldn't even see it on the skyline. It'd be a mirage. I think that could be interesting. That said, I guess we'll have to see. They're not doing additional demo at the site right now for it to stay undeveloped, though.

How? Lots of ways, none of which were explored in these designs. Lets use its cubes at its basic units. Why not explore a traditional New York wedding cake design and give this tower a real base to stand upon, not to mention a real street-wall. Something like 500 5th Ave comes to mind.

The other option of course is to reduce the height to something rational. A 900 foot building would still stand out, still have the same views, and it wouldn't look so ridiculous.Taller buildings are more expensive to build, and if this only has 1-2 units per floor for the entire tower, that means really high price points even for a 20th story apartment (though I'm sure they'll fake inflate the floor count to 200 floors).

Lets just say when a developer starts out trying to build a 60-story, 600,000 square foot tower and a year later is trying to build the city's tallest building (Trade Center being 1373', this building being 1420' by STRs calculations), something is up. And usually its something fictional. I've said before there are a lot of other competing residential towers proposed, one of which is financed and the others of which have not been so, and I think its reasonable to doubt they won't be financed in the near term. But if somehow other developers can pull it together, something like the MoMa tower has a much better shot of being built, simply from a financial/feasibility standpoint, and its certainly more deserving of being so.

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole

I wish you were right. However, the reality is that people from all over the world will line-up and buy the 100 or so apartments in this idiotic tower at $5k/sf.

I'll believe it when I see it. One57 will be providing a good barometer, whenever its sales actually start, and even then I'd think the price points in this building would be higher.

[RobertWalpole]

The fact is that NY and London are the only cities in which people all over the world want an apartment. Very wealthy people will line up to buy these units regardless of what the tower looks like. In fact, a shiny glass box will attract people from Asia and elsewhere at $5k/sf.

Extell is clearing the site for 225 W57th based upon sales at One57.

[STR]

This thing is absurd. No way it gets built as-shown.

[jackster99]

I think it is a little too early to pass judgment on this tower. I feel that the quality of construction and materials used could still save this tower, and given its park avenue address, that will most likely be the case. Think of this tower as a Mercedes S class. They are often considered very conservative and not all all flashy or grounbreaking, but at the same time the level of quality and materials used in an S class are often unrivalled and the envy of the industry. I feel this tower may be exactly the same way. It may be an extremely conservative design, but i'm counting on this tower being a worthy addition to the generally staid nature of park ave in general.

[JayPro]

Leaving the conjecture of design aside, there's no way is this building gonna end up taller than 1WTC.
Now, if someone can kindly refresh my memory as to how we arrive at the 1,400' figure, I'm all ears. Is this unofficial massing model (my emphasis as usual) even taking the total square footage of the plot into account?
Till an official design is unveiled, all the questions we're asking now and the (IMO) uninformed conclusions we're arriving at are meaningless.

[Dac150]

I don’t know what’s more absurd, that massing model or all this drama over it. I’ll say it again, lot’s of hype over an unknown. Reserve you judgments for the actual rendering.