London's Malls

[haljackey]

The Westmount story made it to the Metro: http://metronews.ca/news/london/964175/l...bly-desolate-dead-mall-list-fights-back/

[MolsonExport]

I agree with the general sentiment expressed in the comments. The managers/owners of Westmount mall are tools. Rebirth? Possibly the most overdue baby in the history of the universe, not counting Montreal's Big-Owe (double entendre)

[Simpseatles]

That list is ridiculous! As bad as Westmount is it's by no means in the same league as infamous, actual, dead malls like South China, Randall Park, Rolling Acres or Dixie Square (featured in the Blues Brothers). The person who wrote it must have been from around here or something.

[Pimpmasterdac]

The writer must be comparing Westmount in its zenith full of stores to the pathetic shell of a shopping mall it currently is. Who knows if (or more likely when) Sears will close and with Target Canada $1 Billion loss their future outlook in Canada looks bleak.

That being said in London there are malls that are much worse. Galleria/Citi Plaza IMO is a bigger flop, what suppose to revitalize downtown shopping has done more to kill/hollow it out, lead to the donutization of shopping. Constantly moving to the new periphery. Oxbury "Mall" is desolate and other than Food Basics would be completely dead, doesn't even deserve a mall designation.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

That list is ridiculous! As bad as Westmount is it's by no means in the same league as infamous, actual, dead malls like South China, Randall Park, Rolling Acres or Dixie Square (featured in the Blues Brothers). The person who wrote it must have been from around here or something.

I am surprised too, but I think context is something to consider here. If this was just the worst / abandoned mall thread, no chance for Westmount there.

Growing up in the 90's, I lived a few minutes drive from Westmount. It was the hub of the entire community. People went there for everything. It had everything. Grocery store, post office, liquor store, dollar store, electronics, pet, crafts, toys, banking, fashion, etc... It had something for everyone.

As the big box boom happened in the 2000's, anchor stores, the theaters/food count were doing ok but the mall itself was getting abandoned. Most people only used the mall itself to go between the anchor stores.

Now, even those anchor stores are not very used. The theatres and grocery store are now separate and Target is pretty much isolated as well (only one narrow connection to the mall on the fist floor, nothing on the second floor).

Many of the stores that were in the mall have moved to their own locations, including many that were in the food court.

I think that the mall's worst days are over, but it's still in a pretty dismal shape compared to its former glory days. This change is what made it earn a spot on the list IMO.

----

Way back when, The mall also had a pretty nice restaurant (Zellers absorbed it when it expanded) and an arcade next to the food court (the old Westmount theatre took it over when it was added).

[GreatTallNorth2]

You can thank your man Paul Van Mer Bergen for the disaster which is Westmount.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

You can thank your man Paul Van Mer Bergen for the disaster which is Westmount.

How so?

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by haljackey

How so?

He's probable the biggest supporter of sprawl our city has ever seen and his policies directly helped empty out Westmount to that soulless big box sprawl we have. Weren't you in the front row supporting him during his last election campaign?

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

He's probable the biggest supporter of sprawl our city has ever seen and his policies directly helped empty out Westmount to that soulless big box sprawl we have. Weren't you in the front row supporting him during his last election campaign?

He isn't responsible for a damn thing. He's merely expressing the interests of his constituents, who clearly enjoy wasting time and fuel driving to the city's periphery to accomplish the same thing they could have done with a few short trips around town. Consumers are responsible for the sprawl; if there was no demand for that type of development, it would flop and nobody would attempt it again.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by Wharn

He isn't responsible for a damn thing. He's merely expressing the interests of his constituents, who clearly enjoy wasting time and fuel driving to the city's periphery to accomplish the same thing they could have done with a few short trips around town. Consumers are responsible for the sprawl; if there was no demand for that type of development, it would flop and nobody would attempt it again.

You couldn't be more wrong my friend. He is the most disconnected politician in London from his constituents. He never answers emails. He was the only councillor in London to not answer the Citizen Engagement Q&A. And if you don't think that politicians have have any responsibility for responsible planning, then you are part of the problem, not the solution. People don't have a choice whether to go to the smart development or the dumb centre style development. They have to go to what has been built.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

He's probable the biggest supporter of sprawl our city has ever seen and his policies directly helped empty out Westmount to that soulless big box sprawl we have. Weren't you in the front row supporting him during his last election campaign?

lol, I remember you were at the meeting now.

I was there to take notes for a municipal politics course. I asked him and the other candidate questions and if I recall they were actually about density/intensification, not sprawl.

I think Van Mer Bergen dodged the question saying ward 10 was actually one of the densest in the city. In fact, his ward ends where the big box development begins.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

The writer must be comparing Westmount in its zenith full of stores to the pathetic shell of a shopping mall it currently is. Who knows if (or more likely when) Sears will close and with Target Canada $1 Billion loss their future outlook in Canada looks bleak.

That being said in London there are malls that are much worse. Galleria/Citi Plaza IMO is a bigger flop, what suppose to revitalize downtown shopping has done more to kill/hollow it out, lead to the donutization of shopping. Constantly moving to the new periphery. Oxbury "Mall" is desolate and other than Food Basics would be completely dead, doesn't even deserve a mall designation.

I think Westmount deserves more than just an honourable mention for its poor state because of the reason you suggested: it used to be very good (haljackey’s portrayal of it is exactly how I remember it, too). Also, it’s in a relatively affluent neighbourhood close to a rapidly-sprawling edge of town. Malls in that situation (I’m thinking Eastgate in Hamilton and Fairview in Kitchener, though they’re both larger, or Bayfield Mall in Barrie) should still be doing fairly well, and for Westmount to fail as spectacularly as it is requires something really special.

Galleria, on the other hand, is in good company in terms of ill-conceived malls in Ontario city centres built in the 1970s and 1980s on the remains of much more useful buildings. So, while it’s worse than Westmount, it’s probably not worse than its peers in other city centres that were supposed to save the downtown but instead murdered it dead and are now just miserable.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by haljackey

lol, I remember you were at the meeting now.

I was there to take notes for a municipal politics course. I asked him and the other candidate questions and if I recall they were actually about density/intensification, not sprawl.

I think Van Mer Bergen dodged the question saying ward 10 was actually one of the densest in the city. In fact, his ward ends where the big box development begins.

Lol, then you probably remember me asking him the questions that he didn't want to answer. I wonder if he is actually running this time round.

[can00k]

Stalwart business Logo Sports handed the heave-ho after 25 years

White Oaks management is booting out a 25-year old family-owned business. I hope they can find another location.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

You couldn't be more wrong my friend. He is the most disconnected politician in London from his constituents. He never answers emails. He was the only councillor in London to not answer the Citizen Engagement Q&A. And if you don't think that politicians have have any responsibility for responsible planning, then you are part of the problem, not the solution. People don't have a choice whether to go to the smart development or the dumb centre style development. They have to go to what has been built.

True, I may be wrong about Van Meerkat Burger, however you are wrong about people voting with their feet. Sure, they have to go to something that has been built- but there is nothing stopping them from using existing facilities. The reason why the downtown died was not because of evil developers conspiring against the mom-and-pop shops, it was because people were lazy and didn't want to look for parking. The reason why the malls are dying is not because the developers want to gobble up more land (although that is the end result), it's because, again, people are lazy and can't stand driving from Loblaws to Sears, they need to have EVERYTHING in one massive parking lot. I spend lots of time with these types of people, their mindset baffles me, but I can see a perfectly logical outcome stemming from said mindset.

Originally Posted by can00k

Stalwart business Logo Sports handed the heave-ho after 25 years

White Oaks management is booting out a 25-year old family-owned business. I hope they can find another location.

I'm not familiar with Logo Sports, but I can imagine this offers the mall some sort of competitive advantage; why would you, a lazy consumer, go to a mall when they are planning to implement the same flavour of franchise as your local Big Box development?

[GreatTallNorth2]

Well, you are right that people are lazy, but they aren't just lazy, they are stupid too because they spend more time and energy driving from big box to big box than they would driving to the mall, parking and getting all their stuff.

[haljackey]

But... you gotta walk from store to store in the mall!

Even though it's climate controlled, driving from store to store still beats it.

I want to shop, not work out

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by haljackey

But... you gotta walk from store to store in the mall!

Even though it's climate controlled, driving from store to store still beats it.

I want to shop, not work out

Is that you Paul VMB??

[MolsonExport]

Van Meerkat Burger

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by haljackey

I want to shop, not work out

North America in a nutshell.