[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

The midtown closed yesterday for its move up the street. I doubt that something like the midtown would move if they weren't going to go through with the project.

I wouldn't be too sure. There have been some closures downtown to make way for projects that don't happen or get stalled. Dooley's on Barrington is a good example, they closed to make way for the Roy Building project which appears to be moving pretty slowly. If I was a sucessful business like the Midtown with a loyal clientel I'd rather get out of the lease and make the move instead of sticking in limbo.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

The midtown closed yesterday for its move up the street. I doubt that something like the midtown would move if they weren't going to go through with the project.

The Midtown property was sold to a private interest. Whether the new owners are able to secure the financing and political backing to build a Trade Centre is the big question. The most significant issue at the moment is that the "Dexter dozen" have been 100% silent about the project. This is because they are anti business, anti establishment, pro union, etc. To support such a slap in the face to the ideology of the NDP movement will take some time. I hope none of you voted NDP.

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by Empire

...The most significant issue at the moment is that the "Dexter dozen" have been 100% silent about the project. This is because they are anti business, anti establishment, pro union, etc. To support such a slap in the face to the ideology of the NDP movement will take some time. I hope none of you voted NDP.

...Wow. Just wow. Have any sources to back that up?

And I happily voted NDP. I'd do it again until I have reason not to.

[Jonovision]

Yah really! Was it not he NDP who ran BC during Vancouvers big boom times?! I wouldn't mind a bit of that here if you ask me.

[Architype]

I noticed this project is generating lots of interest. It looks like a nice fairly impressive project for Halifax, though the design may be a bit 80's or whatever. I am actually a bit suprised that they will allow buildings that tall just below the Citadel, given all the concern about that. Within the context of Atlantic Canada, I don't think Nimbyism is doing all that well there.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

...Wow. Just wow. Have any sources to back that up?

And I happily voted NDP. I'd do it again until I have reason not to.

What happend to the funding for the fourplex in Bedford?

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

Yah really! Was it not he NDP who ran BC during Vancouvers big boom times?! I wouldn't mind a bit of that here if you ask me.

Nothing to do with the NDP. There was an influx of money coming in from Hong Kong in eartly 90'S before China took it over. By the late 90's BC was in bad shape until the new Liberal government took over.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Empire

What happend to the funding for the fourplex in Bedford?

Great point, and look at all the other government funded projects and where they stand today.....

Also i am sure design height will become an issue with an NDP government.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by sdm

Great point, and look at all the other government funded projects and where they stand today.....

Also i am sure design height will become an issue with an NDP government.

If the NDP Gov. supports the Trade Centre and the businesses that it represents they have a very odd way of expressing that....."total silence-summer recess or no summer recess"

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Empire

What happend to the funding for the fourplex in Bedford?

It is in fact the Conservative federal government that pulled the funding plug, whereas the provincial government just last week stated that they plan to still provide their $15M portion of the funding (... true this was first put forward by the previous government, but the NDP have stated they will continue to honour it).

So the funding debacle in this case was caused by Conservatives, not socialists. Now you can say that it is the NDP's fault because the conservatives simply don't want to give funding to a NDP province (or probably more specifically not wanting to give funding to a riding that voted out the lone Halifax PC MLA), but all that means is that it is the Conservatives who are (potentially) playing politics with funding of building projects.

CH Op-ed piece on Ottawa's decision to pull funding:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1134483.html

I am basically an apolitical person because I can't stand how politics works in this country, but having said that I really find it very unhelpful to paint different parties with black or white. There is not one single party in NS or Canada that is without its faults/issues/parties. To blindly say that Conservatives are pro-development and NDPers are anti-development doesn't help, nor is it true as a blanket statement. I prefer to take the tack of working with those supporters of each party and educate them on the best solutions (rather than the political answers) to issues facing the region.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by beyeas

It is in fact the Conservative federal government that pulled the funding plug, whereas the provincial government just last week stated that they plan to still provide their $15M portion of the funding (... true this was first put forward by the previous government, but the NDP have stated they will continue to honour it).

So the funding debacle in this case was caused by Conservatives, not socialists. Now you can say that it is the NDP's fault because the conservatives simply don't want to give funding to a NDP province (or probably more specifically not wanting to give funding to a riding that voted out the lone Halifax PC MLA), but all that means is that it is the Conservatives who are (potentially) playing politics with funding of building projects.

CH Op-ed piece on Ottawa's decision to pull funding:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1134483.html

I am basically an apolitical person because I can't stand how politics works in this country, but having said that I really find it very unhelpful to paint different parties with black or white. There is not one single party in NS or Canada that is without its faults/issues/parties. To blindly say that Conservatives are pro-development and NDPers are anti-development doesn't help, nor is it true as a blanket statement. I prefer to take the tack of working with those supporters of each party and educate them on the best solutions (rather than the political answers) to issues facing the region.

Yes you have valid points. Will the provincial NDP gov. be able to get their fair share of the 12 billion federal conservative stimulus money? I belive it was Peter Kelly and his band of merry men who said they will move forward anyway. If HRM and the province fund the project, $15,000,000 will be taken out of other projects and the trade centre could be one of them.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Empire

Yes you have valid points. Will the provincial NDP gov. be able to get their fair share of the 12 billion federal conservative stimulus money? I belive it was Peter Kelly and his band of merry men who said they will move forward anyway. If HRM and the province fund the project, $15,000,000 will be taken out of other projects and the trade centre could be one of them.

I do agree with your last point. It is my worry as well that other government funded projects will be delayed or cancelled because of this. The money for the rink has to come from somewhere, and one way they may do it is to pull funds from a project such as the Nova Centre. Again though, if that is how the dominos fall in all this, it will be on the Conservative federal government for having possibly played politics on the Bedford project.

[Barrington south]

i' not gonna touch this one!!!

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Barrington south

i' not gonna touch this one!!!

LOL. Meh... I am not lobbying for or against any of the political parties. In fact my biggest beef is that at the end of the day they are all same, because fundamentally there is not one party out there that I truly believe would choose the "right decision" over the "decision that will get us re-elected". That seems to just be an unfortunate fundamental truth of politics regardless whether you are a Conservative, a Liberal, NDP or Rhinoceros party!

[sdm]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I do agree with your last point. It is my worry as well that other government funded projects will be delayed or cancelled because of this. The money for the rink has to come from somewhere, and one way they may do it is to pull funds from a project such as the Nova Centre. Again though, if that is how the dominos fall in all this, it will be on the Conservative federal government for having possibly played politics on the Bedford project.

The federal government didn't play politics on the Bedford rinks, the city did and appears to have lost.

Kelly needed to keep his mouth shut and say nothing about if the project would proceed with or without funding. That is the basis for the federal programs, ie projects that wouldn't be ever able to start without the influx of money. Kelly screwed up, he is the one to blame.

I for one think there will be issues for funding on the Nova Centre because of the time to complete and the fact that it is a private/public collaboration. If it was purely public the funds i bet would be easier to obtain.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by sdm

The federal government didn't play politics on the Bedford rinks, the city did and appears to have lost.

Kelly needed to keep his mouth shut and say nothing about if the project would proceed with or without funding. That is the basis for the federal programs, ie projects that wouldn't be ever able to start without the influx of money. Kelly screwed up, he is the one to blame.

I for one think there will be issues for funding on the Nova Centre because of the time to complete and the fact that it is a private/public collaboration. If it was purely public the funds i bet would be easier to obtain.

Believe me, I am NO fan of Kelly's and am happy to spread the criticism around! :-) I am quite the sure he and the entire council share some of the blame here, and I agree that they made a strategic mistake in overplaying the fact that they could do it by just borrowing more. But I don't believe that absolves the government of blame either... there are plenty of examples of projects that are in very very similar situations that were funded. In fact, the availability of funds was not sited at all in the federal government's response as to why they would not be giving money for this.

[worldlyhaligonian]

As much as I didn't like Rodney (aka Harper's bitch), it is still legitimate to be worried about this (or any) new government.


What really scares most of us on this forum has little to do with political perspectives and more to do with the perceived values of the newly elected officials.

Here is simply what many have tried to convey through the previous conversation:

If somebody is intrinsically anti-height or anti-development, how can they honestly represent those who elected them if their viewpoints differ? I'm sure there are many NDPers that want to see Halifax develop in a smart/logical way, but do many of their elected representatives feel the same way? (In their own heart and minds).

[Phalanx]

[politics]
Just for the record, the most vocal anti-development NDP party member was shut out of cabinet...

I'm just tired of the common "The NDP are anti-(insert development related issue here)" diatribe. You can't paint everyone in the party with the same brush... these views are not monolithic. I support the provincial NDP (federal - not so much) and I'm very pro-development, and I'm pretty sure you'll probably find your fair share of Conservative and Liberal party members siding with, and among the Heritage Trust.

If you want to know how the elected officials feel, why not try asking them? If you feel strongly about a project, tell them.

So before people start accusing the NDP of obstructing projects, some sort of proof would be nice. Until such time, lets keep it apolitical.
[/politics]

Anyway, enough of that... lets just see what happens here.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

[politics]
Just for the record, the most vocal anti-development NDP party member was shut out of cabinet...

I'm just tired of the common "The NDP are anti-(insert development related issue here)" diatribe. You can't paint everyone in the party with the same brush... these views are not monolithic. I support the provincial NDP (federal - not so much) and I'm very pro-development, and I'm pretty sure you'll probably find your fair share of Conservative and Liberal party members siding with, and among the Heritage Trust.

If you want to know how the elected officials feel, why not try asking them? If you feel strongly about a project, tell them.

So before people start accusing the NDP of obstructing projects, some sort of proof would be nice. Until such time, lets keep it apolitical.
[/politics]

Anyway, enough of that... lets just see what happens here.

I was just trying to explain what others "think"... and I totally agree that you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I was just trying to explain what others "think"... and I totally agree that you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

No worries. The post wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I was just vocalizing my thoughts on the recurring NDP = Anti-development theme.