What is it like to come home to Canada?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I've been watching this weird Dutch-Canadian family's YouTube channel, a typical rich farmer type from Ontario who's moved to Russia, which actually looks more appealing than much of Canada:
https://youtube.com/@countrysideacre...eztuEQISPAb4-B

Warning: like many Dutch Reformed/Mennonites, he's extremely intolerant of LGBTQ and essentially English Canadian secular society, but I suspect he's attracted to cheap land and especially $ in Russia.

I certainly knew of people like him and his family, being exposed to Conservative Christians growing up in 1980s Midwestern Ontario.

Wow. You literally fell for the propaganda channel. Do you know about how the wife deleted negative comments she made about her disappointment with Russia? Or the financial problems they had with local banks?

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...001517915.html

Honestly, I think we're actually better off with these nutcases moving to Russia. We're better off without that kind of toxicity.

[urbandreamer]

Yes, I got sucked into this channel via Reddit and that article. Various American and Canadian Dutch Reformed, Baptist, Mennonite and other nonconformist Evangelical Christians from Western Europe have been moving to Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Romania etc for decades. Many with agrarian roots in the Palatinate. Then I discovered my ex, a Mennonite, is friends of this couple!

My sister, as an English teacher, was invited by a Mennonite mission to the Kiev area 30 years ago and lived there for over a decade. She eventually realized they're using religion to colonize Eastern Europe, expand their inbred genetic pool and most importantly, ensure their multiple offspring have millions of acres to farm for decades/centuries of growth. Bibles and seeds in exchange for babies and money.

I grew up working on neighboring Dutch, Mennonite and Scottish Presbyterian Canadian farms, so I've always been drawn to agricultural equipment, architecture and land discussions. Even today, I enjoy driving across rural Canada and USA moreso than urban environments. It's soothing and relaxing, the rhythm of tree-lined gravel roads, endless corn and soybean fields, the smell of freshcut alfalfa.

The point really is that Canada is filled with millions of these "nutcases" and now is bringing millions more from the third world! This Dutchman literally became a Canadian citizen last year, having come to Canada as a child. He's an immigrant/new Canadian, with no loyalty to English Canada other than a passport of convenience. It's amusing and rather sad watching him pretend to speak as an "English Canadian." His mode of wealth creation is flipping farm properties. Sound familiar?

[lio45]

A good tangible example of the deleterious effects of the Ponzi Scheme: yet another +1 to the Brain Drain stats. Canada's loss, Sweden's gain.

Thankfully, we can make up for quality via quantity. 100 South Asian Indentured Servants, none of whom are close to equivalent to one kool maudit, yet collectively, they will still outweigh him economically (by far).

[thewave46]

Interesting plot twist.

It poses a question: For those who have lived abroad, would you come back to 2024 Canada if you were abroad today?

I’m not seeing the appeal other than sheer familiarity at this juncture. Canada’s slide into mediocrity looks to be a long, drawn out process.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Yes, I got sucked into this channel via Reddit and that article. Various American and Canadian Dutch Reformed, Baptist, Mennonite and other nonconformist Evangelical Christians from Western Europe have been moving to Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Romania etc for decades. Many with agrarian roots in the Palatinate. Then I discovered my ex, a Mennonite, is friends of this couple!

My sister, as an English teacher, was invited by a Mennonite mission to the Kiev area 30 years ago and lived there for over a decade. She eventually realized they're using religion to colonize Eastern Europe, expand their inbred genetic pool and most importantly, ensure their multiple offspring have millions of acres to farm for decades/centuries of growth. Bibles and seeds in exchange for babies and money.

I grew up working on neighboring Dutch, Mennonite and Scottish Presbyterian Canadian farms, so I've always been drawn to agricultural equipment, architecture and land discussions. Even today, I enjoy driving across rural Canada and USA moreso than urban environments. It's soothing and relaxing, the rhythm of tree-lined gravel roads, endless corn and soybean fields, the smell of freshcut alfalfa.

The point really is that Canada is filled with millions of these "nutcases" and now is bringing millions more from the third world! This Dutchman literally became a Canadian citizen last year, having come to Canada as a child. He's an immigrant/new Canadian, with no loyalty to English Canada other than a passport of convenience. It's amusing and rather sad watching him pretend to speak as an "English Canadian." His mode of wealth creation is flipping farm properties. Sound familiar?

Ironically, a lot of these Mennonites came from Russia, fleeing persecution. Anyway, good for them, I am sure their sons will make good cannon fodder in Ukraine.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Interesting plot twist.

It poses a question: For those who have lived abroad, would you come back to 2024 Canada if you were abroad today?

I’m not seeing the appeal other than sheer familiarity at this juncture. Canada’s slide into mediocrity looks to be a long, drawn out process.

I am not convinced a slide into mediocrity is not a worldwide trend. It is hard to think of many places that are better than they were 10 years ago. Maybe some countries are sliding slower than Canada.

[Bishop2047]

A good friend of mine just moved back to Canada from West Africa. He and his family had been forcibly removed from his home village by jihadist extremist. Back in Canada he is blown away by our gender obsessions homelessness and petty priorities. Coming from a country with so little resources, he cannot fathom why Canada focuses on issues that benefit no one( or such small groups of people ). While huge groups of people are hurting. He had left Canada for home just prior to the more restrictive covid measures.

He certainly is disappointed and would like to see less mouth service and identity politics, and more tangible work being done.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

A good tangible example of the deleterious effects of the Ponzi Scheme: yet another +1 to the Brain Drain stats. Canada's loss, Sweden's gain.

Thankfully, we can make up for quality via quantity. 100 South Asian Indentured Servants, none of whom are close to equivalent to one kool maudit, yet collectively, they will still outweigh him economically (by far).

Though in all honesty Kool left Canada a long time ago. Probably in search of adventure more than anything as things were likely better here back then.

But sure Canada's inability to lure him back (though Sweden is a lot better than Kosovo) could be seen as a sign of our relative decline.

[Acajack]

I was thinking Toronto and Canada were slightly better than Sweden in terms of crime, unrest and social climate in general, but that hasn't been trending positively for us recently.

I also have more confidence in the ability of Swedish auththorities to deliver adequate services and assume their responsibilities to the public.

Economic prospects are probably better in Sweden too. (Partly due to a greater sense of national purpose.)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Economic prospects are probably better in Sweden too. (Partly due to a greater sense of national purpose.)

Canada is far, far too much of a decentralized, multi-regional and parochial nation. This trend is progressively worsening. In the long run, this trend will destroy the country.

How do you combat this? The only real way is with a well run, well funded and overtly patriotic nationalist propaganda program. We have to become as jingoistic as the Americans are. Arizonans, Alabamans and Mainers have preecious little in common, but, God-damned it, they are all Americans and fucking proud of it too!!! America is a tremendously flawed society, but they have a profound sense of national purpose and national destiny.

Canada needs a bit of this at least. It would help to broaden support for nation building infrastructure projects and divert attention away from navel-gazing woe-is-me social justice activism and petty regional grievances.........

Canada doesn't have a Captain America, an Uncle Sam or a Yankee Doodle Dandy. Maybe we should! Americans believe in the mythos of a George Washington who never told a lie. John A. MacDonald on the other hand is remembered as a drunk who single handedly was responsible for destroying first nations culture with the residential school system. Neither characterization is accurate, but which one is more constructive for the national psyche???

[Architype]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

..

Canada doesn't have a Captain America, an Uncle Sam or a Yankee Doodle Dandy. Maybe we should! ...

I've been reading through this thread, it's so unbelievably full of gloom and doom. I think we as Canadians have forgotten who we are, and need to look at what we have been historically, a progressive country that people are proud of and want to live in; just look south of the border for the contrast, can anyone honestly see that as a better alternative with its looming fascism? I think the current situation may be a blip, and things will even out eventually. Does anyone dare to think that things will improve with a change of government, I mean doesn't Poilievre claim to have all the solutions?

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Architype

I've been reading through this thread, it's so unbelievably full of gloom and doom. I think we as Canadians have forgotten who we are, and need to look at what we have been historically, a progressive country that people are proud of and want to live in; just look south of the border for the contrast, can anyone honestly see that as a better alternative? I think the current situation may be a blip, and things will even out eventually. Does anyone think that things will improve with a change of government, I mean doesn't Poilievre claim to have all the solutions?

The ‘doom and gloom’ aspect is the seeming lack of ask for a better vision from Canadians at this juncture.

Major pandemic hits? Do we re-envision healthcare delivery? Nope, just sludge back to the pre-2020 trend line of mediocrity.

Housing/rent through the roof? Oh well, suck it up in the meantime and hope interest rates fall so we can load up the next generation with debt. Couldn’t possibly tackle the root causes of the demand-supply mismatch and make life easier for the next generations.

Set government finances right so that future generations won’t carry the COVID/old age spending legacy as heavily? Nah, the money men haven’t cut us off yet, so might as well keep going.

Shift the direction of our foreign affairs/military as to prepare for a more polarized world? Don’t see it. Hack a billion out of the military.

Get away from resource-high based economy? Resources never run out or decline in price, silly. Why do value-add when one can just dig up stuff?

It is just so lame. There’s no push for a better tomorrow. It’s like dealing with management in an ailing company that knows they’re punching out soon.

I want better because I probably will be around long enough to see the consequences of inaction.

[kool maudit]

EDIT: Oh shit! I had attempted to make a quote, but made an edit that obliterated my post. I'll have to rewrite later on Toronto vs. Stockholm, crime-wise.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Canada is far, far too much of a decentralized, multi-regional and parochial nation. This trend is progressively worsening. In the long run, this trend will destroy the country.

How do you combat this? The only real way is with a well run, well funded and overtly patriotic nationalist propaganda program. We have to become as jingoistic as the Americans are. Arizonans, Alabamans and Mainers have preecious little in common, but, God-damned it, they are all Americans and fucking proud of it too!!! America is a tremendously flawed society, but they have a profound sense of national purpose and national destiny.

Canada needs a bit of this at least. It would help to broaden support for nation building infrastructure projects and divert attention away from navel-gazing woe-is-me social justice activism and petty regional grievances.........

Canada doesn't have a Captain America, an Uncle Sam or a Yankee Doodle Dandy. Maybe we should! Americans believe in the mythos of a George Washington who never told a lie. John A. MacDonald on the other hand is remembered as a drunk who single handedly was responsible for destroying first nations culture with the residential school system. Neither characterization is accurate, but which one is more constructive for the national psyche???

You're absolutely right on this. Though it doesn't work for Canada, I'd argue.

It's like telling a fish that in order to become an Olympic champion cyclist, all they need is willpower.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You're absolutely right on this. Though it doesn't work for Canada, I'd argue.

It's like telling a fish that in order to become an Olympic champion cyclist, all they need is willpower.

Well our prime minister saying we are post natioanlist, committed genocide, and our national heros are people to be ashamed of certainly doesn't help.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lio45

A good tangible example of the deleterious effects of the Ponzi Scheme: yet another +1 to the Brain Drain stats. Canada's loss, Sweden's gain.

Thankfully, we can make up for quality via quantity. 100 South Asian Indentured Servants, none of whom are close to equivalent to one kool maudit, yet collectively, they will still outweigh him economically (by far).

To be fair, students (South Asian or otherwise) can be valuable. Imagine, if Elon Musk had continued his studies at Queen's. Or if Sergei Brin had grown up in Canada, or if Satya Nadella had gone to grad school in Canada.

They we have failed to mobilize the best global talent in the world, is a testament to our incompetence, not to the idea of foreign students.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

To be fair, students (South Asian or otherwise) can be valuable. Imagine, if Elon Musk had continued his studies at Queen's. Or if Sergei Brin had grown up in Canada, or if Satya Nadella had gone to grad school in Canada.

They we have failed to mobilize the best global talent in the world, is a testament to our incompetence, not to the idea of foreign students.

I don’t think anyone objects to the idea of foreign students. The problem is the government’s insane approach to implementation.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You're absolutely right on this. Though it doesn't work for Canada, I'd argue.

It's like telling a fish that in order to become an Olympic champion cyclist, all they need is willpower.

One has to be more canny about it here.

America-style nationalism is too obvious. It actually requires a lighter touch and the feds staying more in their lane. Hands-off nationalism through competence and effectiveness at the federal level.

Yeah, one might have to grill the sacred cow of ‘all immigration is good’, but Bessie’s looking kind of sad anyway. Had the feds jumped in a little more effectively with Bombardier, it might’ve carried political water in addition to saving some value-add here.

Better political leaders had the knack.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You're absolutely right on this. Though it doesn't work for Canada, I'd argue.

It's like telling a fish that in order to become an Olympic champion cyclist, all they need is willpower.

It would be harder in Canada to accomplish this, no question.

Language is an obvious consideration, as is also the sheer size of the nation, coupled with it's small and widely separated population centres. Remoteness breeds lack of familiarity with your neighbours and disconnectedness.

There are ways to imbue a sense of nationalism and national purpose however.

Start with our world class athletes and our national teams, especially hockey. Everyone in the country unifies every Olympic cycle to cheer on our NHL greats during a run for an Olympic gold medal. This sense of national unity could be further broadened into other sporting activities and, this is one thing I could see the CBC getting involved in. The CBC is gradually withdrawing from sports coverage. I would argue this should be increasing, at least on the amateur level and with our national teams.

Our military and national police force (RCMP) should also be heavily promoted as well, as our protectors and as an instrument of forging a national consciousness, and a way to promote Canadian ideals to the world. Obviously the military needs to be well equipped and well funded.

Our foreign service and intelligence agencies need a complete overhaul too. We need to be proud of them as a country, and they need to be effective in promoting Canada to the world.

It doesn't matter if you are from Quebec or from BC, you need to have national institutions and national heroes that you can look up to. It has to mean something to be Canadian.

Start with things like this, and, eventually patriotism might begin to extend to other areas as well. It will be a long and slow process, but, eventually, being a Canadian has to mean as much as being an American.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

EDIT: Oh shit! I had attempted to make a quote, but made an edit that obliterated my post. I'll have to rewrite later on Toronto vs. Stockholm, crime-wise.

So re-typing from memory...

Stockholm and Toronto are about equal in terms of crime stats, but I have judged Stockholm as coming out ahead on this issue. This is more for my daughter, as both cities are plenty safe enough for any grown man.

Stockholm comes out ahead for a few reasons:

1) While actual crime is at par, San Francisco-style disorder linked to vagrancy, addiction and mental illness is near-totally absent here but fairly prominent in Toronto.

In addition, there is more of a sense here that the authorities have your back. We have a few local junkies where I live due to some social services nearby, but there is also a big police station here. The unspoken code is that drug behaviours cannot touch civilians, even as a bit of it is tolerated for ordinary reasons.

Last summer, a cryptkeeper-looking fellow was breaking this code and getting rowdy around patrons of the restaurants on the square, and after about a week of this, he was gone. Obviously nothing crazy happened, it's Sweden, but they either pinned some charges on him or gave him to understand that he needed to leave this precinct.

2) The entire 19th century core of Stockholm, along with its surrounding points of interest, is essentially all gentrified. This is where I live. So while my sister is worried about schools in Cabbagetown, I don't worry about places like Botkyrka or Husby where similar concerns would be valid. These are distant commie block realms separated from me by dozens of kilometres, various waterways, freeways, railyards etc. Rinkeby may as well be the airport.

3) The gang issues that have Swedes so shook are serious, but they are like a larger, more fractured version of Montreal's Biker Wars in the 1990s. Things are as they are because drug territories are in flux. This is not to say that they are a non-issue, but they are also not woven into the fabric of life for most people. It is very bad and alarming when a bar or restaurant is firebombed at night, and it's a serious problem, but I am more concerned about street- and transit-level disorder affecting my daughter. Stockholm has very little of this, particularly if you live in the inner city.