Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Comrade

It's not just an issue of Democrat/Republican. There are many Democrats in the Holladay area - probably about the same amount as there are in West Valley City. In fact, based on election returns, Holladay was one of Hillary Clinton's strongest cities outside SLC/South Salt Lake in the County (to be fair, so was WVC). But my point stands about Holladay - its citizens are up in arms over a semi-urban development of Cottonwood Mall and have been now for a decade-plus, which has resulted in the lot remaining empty and design after design being scrapped.

Salt Lake City isn't just Democratic - it's also fairly progressive, especially when it comes to urban issues. SugarHouse may just be the most progressive neighborhood in the state of Utah and it's undergoing a massive urban shift that, to be honest, would have been rejected, IMO, in places like Holladay and WVC, areas of the valley that are probably more Democratic than Republican.

What are you talking about? SH residents have been standing in the way. They have been constantly pushing for more height restrictions, terrified of new residents parking on "their" streets, and whining that SH isn't DT "it is a village". Thank god they don't have local control or nothing that has been developed there would have been.

Lot's of people want this stuff to be built just not in their backyard. That's one of the benefits of a larger city. The NIMBYs tend to get overruled by everyone else.

[RC14]

I am becoming more convinced that SLC, South SL and WVC should combine and perhaps Kearns and Magna also. WVC is not the rest of suburbia. West Valley feels as forgotten as Salt Lake City does if not more so. We have the liberals in Salt Lake City (the capital and largest city in Utah) vs the GOP that controls the rest of Utah but from what I have seen, West Valley feels ignored by both sides. They are the second largest city in Utah but treated by both sides like they are the Utah state prison.

West Valley is much more moderate than liberal Salt Lake City or the conservative rest of the state and more diverse than most of the CSA. It is possible that West Valley could find better representation and both cities could have greater influence, on both the state and national levels, if they combined.

As for the notion that WVC would dilute the Salt Lake City culture and city council: perhaps, but I think West Valley's influence would add to the culture of the city more than it would take away. Annexing WVC would not be the same as annexing Holiday. The people here are less NIMBY and suburban minded. Furthermore, the mix of neighborhoods, demographics and mindsets is what makes cities different from small towns and NIMBY suburbs.
If Salt Lake City was on a roll with impressive urban growth, leaps and bounds above the rest of the state (as it should be being the soul urban center in the region) I would say maybe we shouldn't dilute it but I think most of us have been underwhelmed with Salt Lake City's performance given the overall robust economy of the state. Adding WVC to Salt Lake City would put our population more in line with what it should be and give us more attention and influence which, I believe, would lead to an increase in urban development.
All that being said, it would never happen. I don't think either city would be very happy about the idea of combining. Salt Lake City does not want West Valley City and West Valley would fear loosing local control and being ignored by Salt Lake City.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

What are you talking about? SH residents have been standing in the way. They have been constantly pushing for more height restrictions, terrified of new residents parking on "their" streets, and whining that SH isn't DT "it is a village". Thank god they don't have local control or nothing that has been developed there would have been.

Lot's of people want this stuff to be built just not in their backyard. That's one of the benefits of a larger city. The NIMBYs tend to get overruled by everyone else.

Not really. They've only pushed back against that one massive development that was initially planned for the old Granite block. But it's moot because the point still stands: The area where the Cottonwood Mall stood is still a dirt lot and all those developments that you think everyone here protested and pushed back against have...been developed.

Height restrictions are one thing. Outright petitioning to stall development is another. I don't want that mindset in SLC...because, as you pointed out, we have enough of that already.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Not really. They've only pushed back against that one massive development that was initially planned for the old Granite block. But it's moot because the point still stands: The area where the Cottonwood Mall stood is still a dirt lot and all those developments that you think everyone here protested and pushed back against have...been developed.

Height restrictions are one thing. Outright petitioning to stall development is another. I don't want that mindset in SLC...because, as you pointed out, we have enough of that already.

No it is moot because as rc14 says it won't happen. I'm certain that if SH were its own city there would be nothing over 4 stories anywhere.

I don't think that SH has an urban mindset. I think that is changing now that we have forced it upon them and there are more urban residents but it would have never have happened without the city at large.

Off the top of my head they successfully blocked the homeless shelter, reduced the zoning height on 7th from 120 to 60 feet, resisted S-line exoansion, and increased off street parking requirements for developers along a transit line. They also less successfully pushed back against the height of everything that has been built so far.

This isn't a neighborhood with an urban mindset that has welcomed change. It is the city that as a whole has said we want this. I think if we broke SLC down into the size of most WF communities (like Holladay ) we would see the same nimby issues manifest themselves we see elsewhere in the valley. If SLC were larger we would see fewer.

A good example is olympia Hills. It passed the SL County Council. I think that if MCadams weren't running for Congress against love he wouldn'T have vetoed it. If he was running for reelection as SL County mayor we would be putting a 10k door dent in our housing crisis.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

No it is moot because as rc14 says it won't happen. I'm certain that if SH were its own city there would be nothing over 4 stories anywhere.

I don't think that SH has an urban mindset. I think that is changing now that we have forced it upon them and there are more urban residents but it would have never have happened without the city at large.

Off the top of my head they successfully blocked the homeless shelter, reduced the zoning height on 7th from 120 to 60 feet, resisted S-line exoansion, and increased off street parking requirements for developers along a transit line. They also less successfully pushed back against the height of everything that has been built so far.

This isn't a neighborhood with an urban mindset that has welcomed change. It is the city that as a whole has said we want this. I think if we broke SLC down into the size of most WF communities (like Holladay ) we would see the same nimby issues manifest themselves we see elsewhere in the valley. If SLC were larger we would see fewer.

A good example is olympia Hills. It passed the SL County Council. I think that if MCadams weren't running for Congress against love he wouldn'T have vetoed it. If he was running for reelection as SL County mayor we would be putting a 10k door dent in our housing crisis.

Oh absolutely SugarHouse has a decent urban mindset. Definitely on a different realm than the cities/townships to the south of the city. I think what's confusing you is height = urban and that's not entirely true.

[airhero]

Looks like Vestar has just submitted applications to the planning commission for a Union Pacific Hotel. No attachments I could see. I hope it's better than the original proposal. In any case it will go through a conditional design review.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by airhero

Looks like Vestar has just submitted applications to the planning commission for a Union Pacific Hotel. No attachments I could see. I hope it's better than the original proposal. In any case it will go through a conditional design review.

Also looks like Project Open phase 2 will start soon on 5th West and 4th North.

[Evo5Boise]

I was just in SLC area this week and I noticed police roaming around with Unified Police Department displayed on their vehicles. I am assuming because there are so many smaller cities smashed together they just have a department that can have jurisdiction over the entire valley? I was just curious about that.

Had a great time down there. Love the area. I had Crown Burger for my first time. It did not disappoint.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by airhero

Looks like Vestar has just submitted applications to the planning commission for a Union Pacific Hotel. No attachments I could see. I hope it's better than the original proposal. In any case it will go through a conditional design review.

You and me both airhero. I hope that the original rendering was just a preliminary mock up.

[airhero]

Nerdy post here. Please don't make fun of me. Or do. I'm secure.

I've heard it said that the Grand America is 350 feet tall, which I've always thought is an exaggeration. So since I had a day off and nothing to do, I decided to attempt to measure it myself. I used Google Maps to measure the distance between the base of the building (directly below the highest point of the building) and where the top of the building's shadow fell. Using a box and its shadow for reference, and taking into account the elevation differences between the base of the building and where the shadow ended, I was able to estimate building height.

I tested my method with the Church Office Building and came up with a height of 417 feet, only 3 ft from the official 420 feet, or an error of 0.7%.

Measuring for the Grand America gave me an estimate of 285 feet at the base of the flagpole. I also came up with a height of 250 feet at the base of the bell tower, or whatever it's called, if anyone considers that the true height. I didn't get a measurement for the top of the flagpole, but I estimate it's somewhere around 320 feet.

As far as I'm concerned, that puts the height of the Grand America at 285 feet, which would make it the 12th tallest building, 31 feet shorter than No. 11, 222 S Main.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by delts145

You and me both airhero. I hope that the original rendering was just a preliminary mock up.

I'm sure it was. But it most likely was along the lines of what they were thinking. We'll see what they come up with.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

http://https://www.sltrib.com/news/2...have-it-again/

I am happy to hear that Richie Group is open to compromise regarding Japantown. I also think it is a little silly to call it Japantown when it consists of two religious edifices. While I hate that thy are trying to stop the development, I would love to see some incorporation of Japanese-Utah history and maybe find a way to add some Japanese architectural elements as homage. Lastly, it makes my eyes bleed to read we are going to subsidize a parking garage. If we are going to subsidize anything it should be ground floor retail or nicer finishes. Sheesh.

[SLCLvr]

Originally Posted by Evo5Boise

I was just in SLC area this week and I noticed police roaming around with Unified Police Department displayed on their vehicles. I am assuming because there are so many smaller cities smashed together they just have a department that can have jurisdiction over the entire valley? I was just curious about that.

Had a great time down there. Love the area. I had Crown Burger for my first time. It did not disappoint.

The larger cities have their own police forces. Unified contracts with several of the newer/smaller cities and the townships to provide police services.

[FullCircle]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

http://https://www.sltrib.com/news/2...have-it-again/

I am happy to hear that Richie Group is open to compromise regarding Japantown. I also think it is a little silly to call it Japantown when it consists of two religious edifices. While I hate that thy are trying to stop the development, I would love to see some incorporation of Japanese-Utah history and maybe find a way to add some Japanese architectural elements as homage. Lastly, it makes my eyes bleed to read we are going to subsidize a parking garage. If we are going to subsidize anything it should be ground floor retail or nicer finishes. Sheesh.

Yeah, two religious buildings next to a huge surface parking lot and random unrelated buildings is hardly a "town". If the Ritche group were proposing to tear those to two buildings down for their project then I think the opponents would have a point, but how is constructing a project on a neighboring parking lot going to "destroy the character of Japan town"?

[DCRes]

Originally Posted by airhero

Nerdy post here. Please don't make fun of me. Or do. I'm secure.

I've heard it said that the Grand America is 350 feet tall, which I've always thought is an exaggeration. So since I had a day off and nothing to do, I decided to attempt to measure it myself. I used Google Maps to measure the distance between the base of the building (directly below the highest point of the building) and where the top of the building's shadow fell. Using a box and its shadow for reference, and taking into account the elevation differences between the base of the building and where the shadow ended, I was able to estimate building height.

I tested my method with the Church Office Building and came up with a height of 417 feet, only 3 ft from the official 420 feet, or an error of 0.7%.

Measuring for the Grand America gave me an estimate of 285 feet at the base of the flagpole. I also came up with a height of 250 feet at the base of the bell tower, or whatever it's called, if anyone considers that the true height. I didn't get a measurement for the top of the flagpole, but I estimate it's somewhere around 320 feet.

As far as I'm concerned, that puts the height of the Grand America at 285 feet, which would make it the 12th tallest building, 31 feet shorter than No. 11, 222 S Main.

That is definitely nerdy, but you are amongst similar minded nerds here, it's our safe place (at least most of the time). I've always thought it was exagerated that The Grand America showed up on our list of tallest as 328 ft. On Wikipedia it states "The main structure, not including the cupola or flagpole, is 249 feet. 328 feet with the cupola and flagpole, according to the hotel engineer" so I would say that your measurements are pretty spot on.


The other listing that has always bothered me is that American Tower North and American Tower South are listed as 324 ft while 222 S Main is listed as 315 ft. Standing in not even the top floor of 222 and looking at American Towers, or standing on the ground looking at them, there is no way that American Towers are taller. Some may use the elevation argument, but I insist that there is not much elevation difference between them and certainly not enough to make up that difference. Do you have any interest in applying your measuring methods to these towers?

[H4vok]

Tower 8 Render - Per the bid docs, this one should start construction early next year.

[nushiof]

Originally Posted by H4vok

Tower 8 Render - Per the bid docs, this one should start construction early next year.

Yes!! 375 feet is decent height. Would put Tower 8 as the 5th tallest downtown I believe. Love the glass curvature and the narrow profile from the 100 S. view. Looks like a more attractive cousin to 111. Are there any more photos? Would love to see more.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by nushiof

Yes!! 375 feet is decent height. Would put Tower 8 as the 5th tallest downtown I believe. Love the glass curvature and the narrow profile from the 100 S. view. Looks like a more attractive cousin to 111. Are there any more photos? Would love to see more.

25 Stories, with length along State Street, I am just going to take a stab that the overall available space for leasing will be around 650,000.

At 375', the tower won't have to go through any design review for waivers on height so it will should be able to go quickly through the planning commission for the permitting process. I am happy that even without the waiver being needed, they are not building a square box as originally designed, nor at the original 318' tall.

Hopefully we will hear of additional 20+ towers along State with groundbreakings soon. Liberty Sky being the next. 255 South hopefully soon behind (RDA should be picking a winner soon).

[Orlando]

375' is disappointing. But, I'll take it over nothing at all.

H4VOK,
How do you know that these are construction docs out for bid? I would think that the city would have listed preliminary docs before the bid documents. I think these are just preliminary renderings from the version we saw before.

[H4vok]

These are from a pre-construction RFP through Okland hired by City Creek Reserve. Looks like it is a budgetary number request. The dates on the bid request are late 2018 early 2019 schedule. Okland has sent out these docs for numbers from sub-contractors.

Originally Posted by Orlando

375' is disappointing. But, I'll take it over nothing at all.

H4VOK,
How do you know that these are construction docs out for bid? I would think that the city would have listed preliminary docs before the bid documents. I think these are just preliminary renderings from the version we saw before.