Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Marvland]

RANDOM STUFF

$3.6 billion Airport expansion hits halfway mark. I fly a lot and that thing is impressive. The concourses feel way bigger to me than the renderings implied. Crazy the monthly spend on that is $50 to $70 million.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics...e-new-billion/

Amazon hiring 1500 for their near 900k facility in the NW Quad. I understand this to be "Phase 1" of multiple.

https://fox13now.com/2018/07/30/amaz...llment-center/

SLC his 2.2 million sf in industrial construction LAST QUARTER. After a 7msf year last year, looking like we're breaking more records. It's not all about big shiny towers, kids.

http://www.cbre.us/people-and-office...ch-new-heights

Adobe Phase 2 will bring 1300 jobs:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...workforce.html

Speaking of Adobe, many on this page decry Lehi but there is some cool architecture down there happening and Adobe is one of my favorites. Here is an article from a few years back about the architects WRNS Studio, who are doing some really stellar work right now, and their thoughts and philosophy on the design. I know, not "SLC" wrong thread...

https://www.world-architects.com/ca/...be-utah-campus

Sundance impact last year was 124,000 attendees (45k out of state) and $191 million in revenues, which is about half the impact of SXSW in Austin. That is surprisingly large to me. Should be cool to see them team up with the Silicon Slopes tech summit, which is likewise exploding. Nice thing is that Sundance has really started hitting downtown SLC hard as it's obvious they have outgrown DTPC.

https://www.sundance.org/blogs/news/...-impact-report

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Marvland

SLC his 2.2 million sf in industrial construction LAST QUARTER. After a 7msf year last year, looking like we're breaking more records. It's not all about big shiny towers, kids.

http://www.cbre.us/people-and-office...ch-new-heights

lmfao it's SLC...it's never been about big shiny towers.

[bob rulz]

I feel that SLC merging with ANY other city in the county would only hold SLC back. The further out you expand, the more that the suburban mindset will infiltrate. There is no way that something like the ADU ordnance would pass if SLC merged with anybody (except again, ~maybe~ SSL), for example. I think expanding the borders of SLC would only stifle urban development more than it already is.

Originally Posted by Makid

They were finalizing the engineering prior to the tariffs in late May but may be looking at some alterations or possible height adjustments (possible increase?) to ensure that everything still comes out right for them.

Skinnier tower with greater height, please!

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by Marvland

RANDOM STUFF

$3.6 billion Airport expansion hits halfway mark. I fly a lot and that thing is impressive. The concourses feel way bigger to me than the renderings implied. Crazy the monthly spend on that is $50 to $70 million.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics...e-new-billion/

Amazon hiring 1500 for their near 900k facility in the NW Quad. I understand this to be "Phase 1" of multiple.

https://fox13now.com/2018/07/30/amaz...llment-center/

SLC his 2.2 million sf in industrial construction LAST QUARTER. After a 7msf year last year, looking like we're breaking more records. It's not all about big shiny towers, kids.

http://www.cbre.us/people-and-office...ch-new-heights

Adobe Phase 2 will bring 1300 jobs:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...workforce.html

Speaking of Adobe, many on this page decry Lehi but there is some cool architecture down there happening and Adobe is one of my favorites. Here is an article from a few years back about the architects WRNS Studio, who are doing some really stellar work right now, and their thoughts and philosophy on the design. I know, not "SLC" wrong thread...

https://www.world-architects.com/ca/...be-utah-campus

Sundance impact last year was 124,000 attendees (45k out of state) and $191 million in revenues, which is about half the impact of SXSW in Austin. That is surprisingly large to me. Should be cool to see them team up with the Silicon Slopes tech summit, which is likewise exploding. Nice thing is that Sundance has really started hitting downtown SLC hard as it's obvious they have outgrown DTPC.

https://www.sundance.org/blogs/news/...-impact-report

Am I missing anything or are there no photos of the concourses? They have terminal photos but they seem to be big mainly because of the aperture used. But I'm not seeing anything that shows the concourses. I wish that the Tribune would include more informative photos and less "high school photography project" photos. SLC themselves have been terrible about posting photos of anything on the project website (no good interior pics for months now) and they don't post the meeting minutes online anymore (they aren't even hidden under the address or anything). I've been reduced to using Snapchat to look at what construction workers put up on their Snap Stories :-(

[bob rulz]

Pioneer Park is getting an improvement:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics...park/comments/

It seems like a win-win addition. People still only really go to Pioneer Park for the Farmers' Market (and any other events that happen to be held there) and avoid it at all other times (although I'm not sure if it's improved or not since Operation Rio Grande). This seems like a step in the right direction of making this park viable.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Marvland

RANDOM STUFF

SLC his 2.2 million sf in industrial construction LAST QUARTER. After a 7msf year last year, looking like we're breaking more records. It's not all about big shiny towers, kids.

http://www.cbre.us/people-and-office...ch-new-heights

Just referencing this portion of the post even though I do like the rest.

There is a portion mentioned regarding the Commercial Office Market for Downtown in that demand is high for space but due to a lack of 50,000 sq ft contiguous space allotments, lease activity has mostly ended outside of Recursion Pharmaceuticals moving into the former Dicks location at the Gateway.

The report mentioned 4 Commercial projects should be breaking ground soon for the Downtown area: Tower 8, 650 Main (Patrinely Phase 1), 370 Millennium (Held), and Salt Development (10 Story directly north of North Temple overpass). When completed, the combined spaces will account for over 1.2 Million sq ft of available commercial space, this will be the most planned commercial space coming online in the Downtown area ever (not counting the Triad Towers in the 80's). The American Stores building (Wells Fargo) wasn't planned to be public when it opened, these projects are.

Going back slightly to a previous topic, a good portion of the demand for office space downtown is tech driven.

Lastly, the gap between Suburban and Downtown Office rent rates is closing. New Class A is still more for Downtown but it is now only about $5 per sq ft more. On a total average level, there is less than a $3 average difference between the Downtown and Suburban markets. This is due to the large amount of older buildings that have been updated in the Downtown area.

[twig]

Can someone please fill in the blanks and the sites the data came from?

I am having a difficult time finding accurate data

Total office space downtown:
U/C office space:
Proposed office space: 1.2 million?

[Makid]

Originally Posted by twig

Can someone please fill in the blanks and the sites the data came from?

I am having a difficult time finding accurate data

Total office space downtown:
U/C office space:
Proposed office space: 1.2 million?

Tower 8: Estimated to currently be between 650,000 and 700,000 of available sq ft.
650 Main (Patrinely Phase 1): 320,000 sq ft. (http://www.patrinelygroup.com/office-650main/)
370 Millennium (Held): Has their Commercial space estimated at 11 floors. That would put it at a rough estimate of between 150,000 and 220,000 sq ft depending on the overall size of the floor plates. (https://www.downtownrising.com/go/370-millennium-tower)
Salt Development doesn't have their estimated site listed from what I can find.

Just the above gets us to around 1.2 Million without Salt Development.

[twig]

Originally Posted by Makid

Tower 8: Estimated to currently be between 650,000 and 700,000 of available sq ft.
650 Main (Patrinely Phase 1): 320,000 sq ft. (http://www.patrinelygroup.com/office-650main/)
370 Millennium (Held): Has their Commercial space estimated at 11 floors. That would put it at a rough estimate of between 150,000 and 220,000 sq ft depending on the overall size of the floor plates. (https://www.downtownrising.com/go/370-millennium-tower)
Salt Development doesn't have their estimated site listed from what I can find.

Just the above gets us to around 1.2 Million without Salt Development.

Thank you!

[twig]

I will be updating/editing this post as more info comes to me

also please correct anything that may not be fully accurate. I'm having a hard time getting data for everything so feel free to fill in the blanks.


Downtown office space


Regional:


Salt Lake City
Downtown office space: 8.4 million
U/C office space:
Proposed office space: 1.2 million
COB: 2 million

http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/~/me...ice_Q22018.pdf
http://www.patrinelygroup.com/office-650main/
https://www.downtownrising.com/go/370-millennium-tower

Denver
Downtown office space: 29 Million
U/C office space: 1.55 million
Proposed office space: 990,000

file:///C:/Users/bajensen/Downloads/Denver_Americas_MarketBeat_Office_Q12018.pdf
denverinfill.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Denver

Denver Tech Center
Office space: 9.4 million
U/C office space:
Proposed:

http://www.dtcmeridian.com/about/places/the-dtc-story

Boise
Total office space downtown: ~ 4.5 million square feet.
U/C office space: 130,000 sq ft
Proposed office space: 181,000 sq ft

http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/s...esults?q=boise

Other Cities

New York City
Downtown office space: 500 million sq ft

https://www.moderncities.com/article...ness-districts

Los Angeles
Downtown office space: 32 million

https://www.moderncities.com/article...ness-districts

[Makid]

Originally Posted by twig

I will be updating/editing this post as more info comes to me

also please correct anything that may not be fully accurate. I'm having a hard time getting data for everything so feel free to fill in the blanks.

Downtown office space

Salt Lake City
Downtown office space:
U/C office space:
Proposed office space: 1.2 million

http://www.patrinelygroup.com/office-650main/
https://www.downtownrising.com/go/370-millennium-tower

For Salt Lake
According to this: http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/~/me...ice_Q22018.pdf
The CBD has 8.4 Million Sq Ft of office space
Periphery adds another 3.2 Million Sq Ft.

The problem is that Downtown extends beyond the CBD area into the Periphery but doesn't include it completely so I am not sure what the actual total of office space would be for Downtown.

Also, I don't think this or other similar reports list the 1.5 Million sq ft COB as it is 100% private. All totaled, there is roughly 2 Million sq ft of office space on the COB block between the COB, Administration building, JSMB, and the Relief Society Offices. It is office space, just not market available.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I feel that SLC merging with ANY other city in the county would only hold SLC back. The further out you expand, the more that the suburban mindset will infiltrate. There is no way that something like the ADU ordnance would pass if SLC merged with anybody (except again, ~maybe~ SSL), for example. I think expanding the borders of SLC would only stifle urban development more than it already is.



Skinnier tower with greater height, please!

Agreed. No desire for SLC to merge with any other city outside maybe South Salt Lake.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Agreed. No desire for SLC to merge with any other city outside maybe South Salt Lake.

Yes! Why should the center of our metro have the tax resources and planning authority commensurate with that position? It is so much better to remain one of many enclaves nearly irrelevant to most on the WF.

Srsly, how can you have that opinion whilst you live here and have lungs? Like it or not SLC proper is a small part of a much larger whole. We can't insulate ourselves from any of the larger issues, on he contrary we often take the largest hit (see pollution settling at the lowest level and the homeless issue). Better that we can lead(even if it means a fight) than be ignored.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

Yes! Why should the center of our metro have the tax resources and planning authority commensurate with that position? It is so much better to remain one of many enclaves nearly irrelevant to most on the WF.

Srsly, how can you have that opinion whilst you live here and have lungs? Like it or not SLC proper is a small part of a much larger whole. We can't insulate ourselves from any of the larger issues, on he contrary we often take the largest hit (see pollution settling at the lowest level and the homeless issue). Better that we can lead(even if it means a fight) than be ignored.

lol what? In this scenario, SLC loses all its political clout because it just became a marginalized neighborhood within a conservative city government. So instead of Salt Lake at least doing its best to urbanize itself, they've now overloaded the city with the type of suburban mindset that dominates everything south of 3300 South - and now that has the majority voice in overall development than what we have now.

Screw that.

I mean, for fuck's sake, look what's going on with the old Cottonwood Mall site. Holladay residents are getting their panties in a wad over a development that isn't even on the level of what we're seeing in SugarHouse. Hell, that site has been so scaled back because of fears of it being too urban that it'll essentially be developed into a lifestyle center when it's eventually finished. Why the fuck would I want that type of mindset in my city?

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Comrade

lol what? In this scenario, SLC loses all its political clout because it just became a marginalized neighborhood within a conservative city government. So instead of Salt Lake at least doing its best to urbanize itself, they've now overloaded the city with the type of suburban mindset that dominates everything south of 3300 South - and now that has the majority voice in overall development than what we have now.

Screw that.

I mean, for fuck's sake, look what's going on with the old Cottonwood Mall site. Holladay residents are getting their panties in a wad over a development that isn't even on the level of what we're seeing in SugarHouse. Hell, that site has been so scaled back because of fears of it being too urban that it'll essentially be developed into a lifestyle center when it's eventually finished. Why the fuck would I want that type of mindset in my city?

If we were talking about adding both West Valley and West Jordan I would share your concerns but we're not.

Let's say that if we did add West Valley we expanded the City Council from 7, currently, to 11. This would mean that Salt Lake City proper would have six and two thirds members and West Valley would have four and one third. WVC simply does not have the population to dominate SLC. If we take the recent Adu ordinance which if I recall correctly passed 6 to 1 even if all of the new council members voted against it it would still pass. Under this scenario Not only would the ordinance cover Salt Lake City proper but also all of West Valley City. Further there is no reason to think that all 4 new members would vote against it.


WVC is currently represented by 6 members in the state house. 3 fully within their borders and 3 partial. Despite a GOP gerrymander Democrats are winning in West Valley City. District 31, 22, 26, and 34 are held by democrats while 30 and 33 are held by Republicans.

Salt Lake City's current Municipal boundaries act like a GOP gerrymander. The boundaries essentially pack liberals into a limited area and limit their influence. If West Valley City were part of Salt Lake City liberals would not be wiped out their influence would be expanded.

[Ironweed]

[QUOTE=twig;8270333]I will be updating/editing this post as more info comes to me

also please correct anything that may not be fully accurate. I'm having a hard time getting data for everything so feel free to fill in the blanks.


Downtown office space


Regional:


Salt Lake City
Downtown office space: 8.4 million
U/C office space:
Proposed office space: 1.2 million
COB: 2 million

http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/~/me...ice_Q22018.pdf
http://www.patrinelygroup.com/office-650main/
https://www.downtownrising.com/go/370-millennium-tower

Interesting stats Twig. Thanks.

In my opinion, SLC should have at least double the office space downtown at 17 million. No question.

We always hear about 'proposed'. It always seems to stay in that camp. If the spread between suburban office and downtown is that small. There is no legitimate reason for SL not to build, other than the incompetence of multiple parties. I don't know how we fix that?

Marvland, I don't think anyone is dissing the economic growth of the area. There are some good things going on in that regard. This is once again, the "Skyscraper page" and so yeah, it kinda is about the lack of tower development in the downtown area. No offense.

Hopefully someday, SLC will become a true urban center, and not remain the underdeveloped squat shop it is presently.

[Liberty Wellsian]

^Also SLC isn't kinda liberal it is very liberal. We have a top 2 primary system that results in a Democrat running against another Democrat for Mayor. The majority of our elected leadership is LGBTQ! It would take a lot to overcome that.(That's why SLC and WVC vote with southern Utah in congressional ellections)

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Comrade

lol what? In this scenario, SLC loses all its political clout because it just became a marginalized neighborhood within a conservative city government. So instead of Salt Lake at least doing its best to urbanize itself, they've now overloaded the city with the type of suburban mindset that dominates everything south of 3300 South - and now that has the majority voice in overall development than what we have now.

Screw that.

I mean, for fuck's sake, look what's going on with the old Cottonwood Mall site. Holladay residents are getting their panties in a wad over a development that isn't even on the level of what we're seeing in SugarHouse. Hell, that site has been so scaled back because of fears of it being too urban that it'll essentially be developed into a lifestyle center when it's eventually finished. Why the fuck would I want that type of mindset in my city?

Drop the mic.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

If we were talking about adding both West Valley and West Jordan I would share your concerns but we're not.

Let's say that if we did add West Valley we expanded the City Council from 7, currently, to 11. This would mean that Salt Lake City proper would have six and two thirds members and West Valley would have four and one third. WVC simply does not have the population to dominate SLC. If we take the recent Adu ordinance which if I recall correctly passed 6 to 1 even if all of the new council members voted against it it would still pass. Under this scenario Not only would the ordinance cover Salt Lake City proper but also all of West Valley City. Further there is no reason to think that all 4 new members would vote against it.


WVC is currently represented by 6 members in the state house. 3 fully within their borders and 3 partial. Despite a GOP gerrymander Democrats are winning in West Valley City. District 31, 22, 26, and 34 are held by democrats while 30 and 33 are held by Republicans.

Salt Lake City's current Municipal boundaries act like a GOP gerrymander. The boundaries essentially pack liberals into a limited area and limit their influence. If West Valley City were part of Salt Lake City liberals would not be wiped out their influence would be expanded.

WVC/Magna has always had more Democrats than Republicans.

[Comrade]

It's not just an issue of Democrat/Republican. There are many Democrats in the Holladay area - probably about the same amount as there are in West Valley City. In fact, based on election returns, Holladay was one of Hillary Clinton's strongest cities outside SLC/South Salt Lake in the County (to be fair, so was WVC). But my point stands about Holladay - its citizens are up in arms over a semi-urban development of Cottonwood Mall and have been now for a decade-plus, which has resulted in the lot remaining empty and design after design being scrapped.

Salt Lake City isn't just Democratic - it's also fairly progressive, especially when it comes to urban issues. SugarHouse may just be the most progressive neighborhood in the state of Utah and it's undergoing a massive urban shift that, to be honest, would have been rejected, IMO, in places like Holladay and WVC, areas of the valley that are probably more Democratic than Republican.