Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3 - Page 164

Djeffery · #**3261** Posted **Jul 23, 2019, 10:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46

Rogers Arena 2?
Rogers Place 2?
Rogers Centre 2?

Scotiabank Arena 2?
Scotiabank Place 2?

I await with bated breath as to which unique name we paste on this one.

There isn't a Rogers Gardens yet lol

Denscity · #**3262** Posted **Jul 23, 2019, 10:35 PM**

Rogerbank Centreplace

CtrlAltDel · #**3263** Posted **Jul 23, 2019, 10:53 PM**

The Saddledome is so iconic to Calgary it's hard to imagine the city without it...

Quick photoshop by me.

Chadillaccc · #**3264** Posted **Jul 23, 2019, 11:54 PM**

I'd love to see the new arena called "Telus Gardens"... I dunno, Telus just has a much less shitty image than Rogers and the banks I feel like. Maybe that's just personal opinion. Also Virgin Mobile could snap into a deal and name it "Virgin Place at Stampede Park"... the memes of people being spitroasted behind the dumpsters of "Virgin Place" would go global.

JHikka · #**3265** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 2:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by djeffrey

There isn't a Rogers Gardens yet lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I'd love to see the new arena called "Telus Gardens"...

Whatever the name is it won't be Gardens. It'll be Centre or Place or something like that.

In casual conversation it's better if a person has to say the sponsor name. Saying you're going to just the Centre or Place doesn't make any sense ("I'm going to the Centre tonight!") and needs the sponsor name attached to it. You can say you're going to the Gardens ("I'm going to the Gardens tonight!") without the sponsor name and people will know what you mean. So, give a normal place name a sponsor name and they have to say it ("I'm going to Rogers Centre tonight!"). Basically force the consumer to say the sponsor name by having the name of the building be innocuous without it.

It's why things like CN Tower or ACC worked out so well. Hell, BMO Field is literally just called BMO.

Coldrsx · #**3266** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 3:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel

The Saddledome is so iconic to Calgary it's hard to imagine the city without it...

Quick photoshop by me.

Gotta agree there.

Berklon · #**3267** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 3:21 AM**

I guess they have to give the new arena an iconic look and then everyone will forget the Saddledome.

Coldrsx · #**3268** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 3:22 AM**

31:20

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio...ary?share=true

Bluenote · #**3269** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 5:05 AM**

I think its hilarious as both the Oilers and Flames get new arenas paid for by the tax payers.

Meanwhile here in winnipeg we can build ours without the drama and with a billionares money who is sinking billions in the grande scheme with our True North Centre, same as edmontons ice district. Yet all with private money......

pegcityboy · #**3270** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 6:04 AM**

Yeah Katz may as well be called a thief for the hundreds of millions he got from the taxpayers in Edm and looks like Cgy coughing up a lot of public money as well . The taxpayers did get a raw deal with both Arenas . True North received $33.5 million for our arena and all the upgrades and updates to make it a complete NHL arena was done with private money as well . The main point as long as the people of Calgary and Edmonton are happy with their Arena financing , more power to them cause just like Winnipeg both Edmonton and Calgary needed new facilities.

Corndogger · #**3271** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 6:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I think its hilarious as both the Oilers and Flames get new arenas paid for by the tax payers.

Meanwhile here in winnipeg we can build ours without the drama and with a billionares money who is sinking billions in the grande scheme with our True North Centre, same as edmontons ice district. Yet all with private money......

Billions?

Corndogger · #**3272** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 7:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pegcityboy

Yeah Katz may as well be called a thief for the hundreds of millions he got from the taxpayers in Edm and looks like Cgy coughing up a lot of public money as well . The taxpayers did get a raw deal with both Arenas . True North received $33.5 million for our arena and all the upgrades and updates to make it a complete NHL arena was done with private money as well . The main point as long as the people of Calgary and Edmonton are happy with their Arena financing , more power to them cause just like Winnipeg both Edmonton and Calgary needed new facilities.

The amount spent by the owners in Winnipeg is actually pretty small. The Flames are spending a lot more. I'm not sure what Katz spent but he sure took advantage of provincial connections to get a nice check from the province. As far as I know CSEC is getting $0 from the AB government.

Another point to note is that the current city council in Calgary is full of idiots. On the surface it looks like they got a fair deal but once you start digging you'll see that CSEC out negotiated them. One aspect that's barely mentioned is that CSEC can buy city owned land in the area at current prices starting the day the facility opens up until 10 years later IIRC. This is what the Flames initially wanted and the City didn't. The City could end up making a lot of money from property taxes but they could have made a lot more if they sold the land at 2023/2024 prices.

Djeffery · #**3273** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 10:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Whatever the name is it won't be Gardens. It'll be Centre or Place or something like that.

In casual conversation it's better if a person has to say the sponsor name. Saying you're going to just the Centre or Place doesn't make any sense ("I'm going to the Centre tonight!") and needs the sponsor name attached to it. You can say you're going to the Gardens ("I'm going to the Gardens tonight!") without the sponsor name and people will know what you mean. So, give a normal place name a sponsor name and they have to say it ("I'm going to Rogers Centre tonight!"). Basically force the consumer to say the sponsor name by having the name of the building be innocuous without it.

It's why things like CN Tower or ACC worked out so well. Hell, BMO Field is literally just called BMO.

Nobody says "I'm going to the Rogers Centre tonight". They either say "I'm going to the Jays game", or whatever concert is happening. Or they will say the Dome. Same as in Boston or New York where their arenas are called Gardens. You are going to an event, not a venue. Here in London, Budweiser Gardens is shortened to The Bud in casual conversation if you happen to be talking about the arena, but "I'm going to see Def Leppard tonight", or "I've got Knights tickets tonight" is what people say.

Djeffery · #**3274** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 10:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I think its hilarious as both the Oilers and Flames get new arenas paid for by the tax payers.

Meanwhile here in winnipeg we can build ours without the drama and with a billionares money who is sinking billions in the grande scheme with our True North Centre, same as edmontons ice district. Yet all with private money......

That arena is 15 years old this fall and the smallest in the league. Winnipeg will be seeing drama before too long.

JHikka · #**3275** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 12:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I think its hilarious as both the Oilers and Flames get new arenas paid for by the tax payers.

Meanwhile here in winnipeg we can build ours without the drama and with a billionares money who is sinking billions in the grande scheme with our True North Centre, same as edmontons ice district. Yet all with private money......

Remind me again who's on the hook for IG Field.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djeffrey

Nobody says "I'm going to the Rogers Centre tonight". They either say "I'm going to the Jays game", or whatever concert is happening. Or they will say the Dome. Same as in Boston or New York where their arenas are called Gardens. You are going to an event, not a venue. Here in London, Budweiser Gardens is shortened to The Bud in casual conversation if you happen to be talking about the arena, but "I'm going to see Def Leppard tonight", or "I've got Knights tickets tonight" is what people say.

Right, but we're talking about venues with more than one primary tenant, or which hosts concerts. Fenway or Yankee Stadium are exceptional circumstances (and don't have sponsor names, anyway).

I've heard people in London refer to Budweiser Gardens as "The Gardens" before.

The point of this is if people ask where the show is. Going to see Def Leppard might be one thing but if someone asks where they're playing then it's the answer that's key, whether it's The Bud (sponsor), The Gardens (non-sponsor), or the whole thing, Budweiser Gardens (sponsor). Obviously naming rights work better in larger cities where there's more than one possible location for Def Leppard to play.

In Ottawa the question is usually whether an act is playing at CTC or at Lansdowne. The former is the acronym of the sponsor and the latter is the original name which can't be replaced with a sponsor, although some will still say TD Place. You'll still find a few people that refer to CTC as Corel or Palladium, to add to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery

That arena is 15 years old this fall and the smallest in the league. Winnipeg will be seeing drama before too long.

They won't be as long as demand stays high for the product at current prices.

jonny24 · #**3276** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 12:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Nobody says "I'm going to the Rogers Centre tonight". They either say "I'm going to the Jays game", or whatever concert is happening. Or they will say the Dome. Same as in Boston or New York where their arenas are called Gardens. You are going to an event, not a venue. Here in London, Budweiser Gardens is shortened to The Bud in casual conversation if you happen to be talking about the arena, but "I'm going to see Def Leppard tonight", or "I've got Knights tickets tonight" is what people say.

That works in some instances where it's pretty clear where the show is going to be. Def Leppard isn't going to be playing London Music Hall, of course it's at Budweiser Gardens, if the show is in London.

But if my buddy here in Hamilton says to me "Hey, do you want to see So-and-So in a few weeks?" unless I already know about the show, it could be at any number of venues from Buffalo to Toronto. So he very well might need to say Rogers Centre or Scotiabank (I find most people leave off "Arena" - SB is long enough of a word and in this context is enough, it's clearly not at a bank).

esquire · #**3277** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 12:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger

The amount spent by the owners in Winnipeg is actually pretty small. The Flames are spending a lot more. I'm not sure what Katz spent but he sure took advantage of provincial connections to get a nice check from the province. As far as I know CSEC is getting $0 from the AB government.

Another point to note is that the current city council in Calgary is full of idiots. On the surface it looks like they got a fair deal but once you start digging you'll see that CSEC out negotiated them. One aspect that's barely mentioned is that CSEC can buy city owned land in the area at current prices starting the day the facility opens up until 10 years later IIRC. This is what the Flames initially wanted and the City didn't. The City could end up making a lot of money from property taxes but they could have made a lot more if they sold the land at 2023/2024 prices.

Calgary is a lucrative NHL market, full stop. Council was in a perfect position to tell CSEC to bugger off and go build the rink on their own. Worst case scenario CSEC would move the franchise but inevitably some other team would swoop right down. I don't get why council would play ball with that group... it's funny/nauseating to read Brett Wilson's tweets griping about every supposed government handout, except for this one which (not surprisingly) benefits him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Remind me again who's on the hook for IG Field.

Apples and oranges. Which major stadiums in Canada have been built exclusively with private money?

JHikka · #**3278** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 1:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Apples and oranges. Which major stadiums in Canada have been built exclusively with private money?

I just think it's a bit disingenuous to look at Calgary's and Edmonton's arena situations and play it off as if Winnipeg hasn't also put public money into sporting venues.

esquire · #**3279** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 1:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

I just think it's a bit disingenuous to look at Calgary's and Edmonton's arena situations and play it off as if Winnipeg hasn't also put public money into sporting venues.

The obvious difference is that a NHL team in Canada is lucrative enough to justify construction of an arena using private funds.

JHikka · #**3280** Posted **Jul 24, 2019, 1:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

The obvious difference is that a NHL team in Canada is lucrative enough to justify construction of an arena using private funds.

Yes, but the economic impact and ROI on an arena is going to be higher than a stadium, particularly if it's built as part of a wider entertainment district.