Halifax Stadium Discussion

[someone123]

I am happy with the result of the vote. 16-6 is not even close. It signifies that there is a lot of support from City Hall for a new stadium.

I hope that they end up looking at 20,000-25,000 permanent seats. A 10,000 seat stadium would have a capacity similar to the Metro Centre for large events, but a larger stadium could be configured as a proper venue for the bigger concerts that end up on the North Common.

The SMU business is just sad but does not surprise me. Yet another case of people protecting a small fiefdom at the expense of the rest of the city. It does not make sense for the city to pay for a stadium for SMU, particularly if it is designed for their athletic programs and has limited room for expansion. SMU would also be just fine with a minimal stadium (which I am guessing could be built for $5-10M or so -- fenwick16 knows this more than I do). Important games like the Uteck Bowl or whatever else could then go to the main stadium.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian

But it's alright for you to detract from our community but how dare someone go after yours?
Listen your in the Halifax thread where we are allowed to have our opinions, we are not in the Moncton thread making these claims, if your cities thread is not interesting enough and you have to come over here, you are going to have to develop a little thicker skin.

I don't browse the Halifax section because the Moncton thread is "boring". I'm actually interested in what's going on in Halifax.

I grew up in Charlottetown, lived in Halifax for nine years and now call Moncton home. I have also spent considerable time in Saint John and Sydney. I browse most of the sections and threads in the forum. It's important not to be parochial. Do you ever read any of the other Maritime threads?

I think my nine years in Halifax entitles me to occasionally offer my opinions in the Halifax section. There are many other posters in this section who also no longer live in Halifax (eg Fenwick and halifaxboyns). I don't have to apologize for offering my two cents.

Anyway, 'nuff said.

[ATL Stadium]

I hate reading on this ....all of the back and forth banter about who said what regarding U2 or Moncton or other topics...or why a person is here or not!

If you have something to share or question about the promotion of HRM building a Stadium great....do it... otherwise butt out......and lets stay focused on getting a Stadium up!


ATLANTIC Stadium ~ Atlantic Storm ~ Ride the Wave!

[halifaxboyns]

If we can't take pot shots (in jest of course) at places; it's no fun for me.
I live in Calgary and make cracks about Edmonton all the time. And don't get me started about Toronto...I don't take comments about Halifax versus Moncton seriously. Besides, no one goes to visit the Maritimes anymore - it's all about Alberta now. HA! Sorry I couldn't resist, I'm joking of course.

I'm glad to see there was no doubt of the support...but what worries me is the next phase. I guess time will tell, but there should be something on the HRM website that allows for more public input.

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by Empire

When Watts asked how many games would be played here if we are a host for the 2015 FIFA World Cup and what kind of media exposure could one expect it clearly demonstrates she was not informed enough to make a decision and should have obstained. What she was getting at was "what..... only one or two games for all that money" let's just build a couple of lousy soccer fields with no seating and everyone in my district will be happy.

I don't think those are unreasonable questions. It is worth questioning just whether or not we're of sufficient size and market to support a large stadium. It will obviously cost money to run so we need to weigh whether it's a good investment or whether those funds, for now, might be better spent elsewhere. There are plenty of cities out there that have spent lots of money on stadiums that proved to be white elephants. There are also obviously cities that have done well with appropriately sized stadiums. I'm glad to see council moving this to phase 2 as more study is warranted, but I hope we don't rely too much on the "build it and it'll all work out" mentality. I'm a little more skeptical of this one as opposed to the Convention Centre. If we can't get funding from other levels of government and from other partners in the private sector, this probably isn't feasible.

It'll be interesting to see how the political games are played out at the federal level. The feds have a policy of not giving money out to build arenas for professional sports teams (Quebec City!). Peter MacKay has made his favourable position known, but if it looks like Halifax might get funding, Quebec and Regina will no doubt cry foul since their requests for funding to build sport facilities were turned down. MacKay carries weight but he's not the last word on the matter. Building a stadium for FIFA would be a nice way to get around that political wrinkle since providing funding for events like that is within the established norms.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't browse the Halifax section because the Moncton thread is "boring". I'm actually interested in what's going on in Halifax.

I grew up in Charlottetown, lived in Halifax for nine years and now call Moncton home. I have also spent considerable time in Saint John and Sydney. I browse most of the sections and threads in the forum. It's important not to be parochial. Do you ever read any of the other Maritime threads?

I think my nine years in Halifax entitles me to occasionally offer my opinions in the Halifax section. There are many other posters in this section who also no longer live in Halifax (eg Fenwick and halifaxboyns). I don't have to apologize for offering my two cents.

Anyway, 'nuff said.

It is good to see some friendly competition between the two municipalities.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by spaustin

It is worth questioning just whether or not we're of sufficient size and market to support a large stadium. It will obviously cost money to run so we need to weigh whether it's a good investment or whether those funds, for now, might be better spent elsewhere. There are plenty of cities out there that have spent lots of money on stadiums that proved to be white elephants.

I agree with you in principle but it's important to point out that a large stadium is not being considered. They are considering spending tens of millions of dollars ($30-60M range), which is similar to the ice rinks built in Bedford ($40M). To put things in perspective, the roof replacement for BC Place in Vancouver is up to $563M. The SkyDome cost $884M in 2011 dollars. My point is not that these projects are good or bad, but that the project being considered for Halifax suits the scale of the city.

Sometimes there is a tendency in the media and elsewhere to portrait small local projects as being much more elaborate and risky than they really are. It's fine to be cautious but in Halifax I think this causes more harm than good. For example, I think the city needs some serious transportation improvements but council is stuck in a small-town mindset. They think they can spend $5-10M here or there on buses and new terminals and everything will just work itself out. Those solutions were okay in the 1950s but they are just not going to work when the city has 500,000 people.

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by spaustin

I don't think those are unreasonable questions. It is worth questioning just whether or not we're of sufficient size and market to support a large stadium. It will obviously cost money to run so we need to weigh whether it's a good investment or whether those funds, for now, might be better spent elsewhere. There are plenty of cities out there that have spent lots of money on stadiums that proved to be white elephants. There are also obviously cities that have done well with appropriately sized stadiums. I'm glad to see council moving this to phase 2 as more study is warranted, but I hope we don't rely too much on the "build it and it'll all work out" mentality. I'm a little more skeptical of this one as opposed to the Convention Centre. If we can't get funding from other levels of government and from other partners in the private sector, this probably isn't feasible.

It'll be interesting to see how the political games are played out at the federal level. The feds have a policy of not giving money out to build arenas for professional sports teams (Quebec City!). Peter MacKay has made his favourable position known, but if it looks like Halifax might get funding, Quebec and Regina will no doubt cry foul since their requests for funding to build sport facilities were turned down. MacKay carries weight but he's not the last word on the matter. Building a stadium for FIFA would be a nice way to get around that political wrinkle since providing funding for events like that is within the established norms.

You've hit the nail right on the head. FIFA is amateur sport and fits within what the Feds would look at especially an opportunity to put HRM on an even basis with others. This is not the Olympics or the Commonwealth games and would be a great spring board down the road if HRM were to expand the stadium to attract other types of events and sporting games.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

If we can't take pot shots (in jest of course) at places; it's no fun for me.
I live in Calgary and make cracks about Edmonton all the time.

Hell, I grew up in Calgary and have fun at its expense all the time. I still get cracked up over that chinese-finger-trap footbridge fiasco

[wespidel]

Peter MacKay is coming back to Halifax on Monday for a big announcement. Dexter also said on radio today that there are two components to his announcement. Peter MacKay met with Dexter in New Glasgow last week-end and stated very clearing that Ottawa was ready to go on the new 500 million dollar new Convention Centre and Nova Centre. But Peter MacKay did say that Dexter`s govt. was appear of their position, whether that refers to increased costs of the project or a combined major stadium on Shannon Park that Dexter`s has to commit too or the Churchill Falls hyro power project. We won`t know until Monday. I can gurantee both decisions can wait any further, convention and stadium! The stadium construction has to start in early 2012 inorder for Halifax to host the Women`s FIFA U20 World Cup Of Soccer in 2014 which will have 16 teams and will be all played in eastern Canada so Halifax`s stadium project even becomes more important. Peter MacKay last week was also over at the Shannon Park site! It`s interesting and it will all unfold and it depends what kind of deal they made. I can tell you one thing if a stadium is build at Shannon Park and Peter MacKay provides the cost of getting Shannon ready and gives the land to the city and province, then I can guarantee you it will not be a mickey mouse eyesore of a facility!

[Empire]

Originally Posted by spaustin

I don't think those are unreasonable questions. It is worth questioning just whether or not we're of sufficient size and market to support a large stadium. It will obviously cost money to run so we need to weigh whether it's a good investment or whether those funds, for now, might be better spent elsewhere. There are plenty of cities out there that have spent lots of money on stadiums that proved to be white elephants. There are also obviously cities that have done well with appropriately sized stadiums. I'm glad to see council moving this to phase 2 as more study is warranted, but I hope we don't rely too much on the "build it and it'll all work out" mentality. I'm a little more skeptical of this one as opposed to the Convention Centre. If we can't get funding from other levels of government and from other partners in the private sector, this probably isn't feasible.

It'll be interesting to see how the political games are played out at the federal level. The feds have a policy of not giving money out to build arenas for professional sports teams (Quebec City!). Peter MacKay has made his favourable position known, but if it looks like Halifax might get funding, Quebec and Regina will no doubt cry foul since their requests for funding to build sport facilities were turned down. MacKay carries weight but he's not the last word on the matter. Building a stadium for FIFA would be a nice way to get around that political wrinkle since providing funding for events like that is within the established norms.

I think the questions are unreasonable from the perspective that Watts should already know that information. She is not supportive of the project yet she clearly doesn't have the information required to make an informed decision. I think she already knew the answers but was hoping to trip someone up so she could wave the " look at this...nobody knows what they are talking about flag"...this time it backfifed....

[resetcbu1]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't browse the Halifax section because the Moncton thread is "boring". I'm actually interested in what's going on in Halifax.

I grew up in Charlottetown, lived in Halifax for nine years and now call Moncton home. I have also spent considerable time in Saint John and Sydney. I browse most of the sections and threads in the forum. It's important not to be parochial. Do you ever read any of the other Maritime threads?

I think my nine years in Halifax entitles me to occasionally offer my opinions in the Halifax section. There are many other posters in this section who also no longer live in Halifax (eg Fenwick and halifaxboyns). I don't have to apologize for offering my two cents.

Anyway, 'nuff said.

I been in calgary for almost a decade now , and love halifax and follow this forum daily

[resetcbu1]

Does anyone think that possibly if the federal shipbuilding contract is won by halifax ,and anounced in time it may have some positive impacts on development including the size of a potential stadium?

[icetea93]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

Does anyone think that possibly if the federal shipbuilding contract is won by halifax ,and anounced in time it may have some positive impacts on development including the size of a potential stadium?

I was wondering that myself...

[fenwick16]

It is amazing how a couple positive developments can change the attitude of a city. If the convention centre and shipbuilding contract both go ahead it would have a extremely positive financial impact on the city. If the stadium also goes ahead then that would be the icing on the cake.

PS: According to the allnovascotia.com, Premier Dexter is not ready to support a stadium - not a surprise since he hasn't shown support in the past. However, the comments sound very similar to the early NDP comments about the convention centre - it sounded like they might not support the convention centre either when they were first elected.

I really hope that Premier Dexter will remember the success of the Canada Winter Games in Halifax and the impact that it had on the city. The Premier was very involved with those events so I hope that he will see a similar benefit of hosting the FIFA Women's Cup and other national and international events.

My hope is that Premier Dexter will support a financially practical stadium (the story states that he would reserve judgement until he sees the business plan). However, the story also states that he said that the HRM will have to foot the bill itself.

[resetcbu1]

Got my fingers crossed, I would love to see all those things and I figure if we won the big 20B$ one, the extra revenue(and spin offs) could easily help cover the extra costs of a "big league" stadium and maybe the Irvings could dabble in a lil CFL with their lucrative new contract?

[halifaxboyns]

If Halifax won the shipping contract and then got funding for the convention centre; those are two big positives (long over due) for HRM. The shipping contract will bring in a long of long term spin offs because of the long term employment. If the age old formula that I've heard many economic development offices use (for every FTE generated in the ship contract; there are 4 spin off FTE jobs in the service sector) then depending on the total number hired for the ship building it will be huge.

While the construction jobs for the convention centre are temporary, that's still 5 years of good full time work for many (5 years more than what is going on now). That's tax money that both the region and the Province could use.

These two things could have a real impact to the Province - help it get the books back in the black, get long term debt paid down and drop the unemployment level. But as fenwick points out - this gives a much needed moral boost to the area.

[spaustin]

Today's Herald. No immediate help from the province.



Dexter: No stadium cash right now

Thu, Aug 11 - 4:55 AM
The province isn’t ready to back a stadium in Halifax Regional Municipality, Premier Darrell Dexter said Wednesday.

The province has committed funding for three major projects — the Muskrat Falls subsea power line, a proposed convention centre for downtown Halifax, and to promote a Nova Scotia shipyard for the national shipbuilding bid, Dexter said.

Given those demands, he said the province cannot commit to funding a stadium right now.

"We’re not in a position, at this point, to jump in on the front end, but we leave open the question of the business case that can be made for this kind of facility," Dexter said at a Cole Harbour news conference.

"Maybe at some point in the future, we’ll be able to reassess that. If . . . the economy’s better and we have more money, then more things become possible, but not right now."

Halifax regional council voted this week to proceed with Phase 2 of a stadium analysis. Councillors supporting a stadium, which could cost up to $60 million, say the other levels of government should help pay for it.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by spaustin

Today's Herald. No immediate help from the province.



Dexter: No stadium cash right now

Thu, Aug 11 - 4:55 AM
The province isn’t ready to back a stadium in Halifax Regional Municipality, Premier Darrell Dexter said Wednesday.

The province has committed funding for three major projects — the Muskrat Falls subsea power line, a proposed convention centre for downtown Halifax, and to promote a Nova Scotia shipyard for the national shipbuilding bid, Dexter said.

Given those demands, he said the province cannot commit to funding a stadium right now.

"We’re not in a position, at this point, to jump in on the front end, but we leave open the question of the business case that can be made for this kind of facility," Dexter said at a Cole Harbour news conference.

"Maybe at some point in the future, we’ll be able to reassess that. If . . . the economy’s better and we have more money, then more things become possible, but not right now."

Halifax regional council voted this week to proceed with Phase 2 of a stadium analysis. Councillors supporting a stadium, which could cost up to $60 million, say the other levels of government should help pay for it.

That's quite a thank you to the provincial gov. cash cow of HRM. I wonder if a stadium is on the list of criteria of corporate head officies when they are looking for a city to relocate in? If Calgary can support 115 national head offices Halifax should be able to support 25. Quite a surprise that there are none in Halifax!

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

Got my fingers crossed, I would love to see all those things and I figure if we won the big 20B$ one, the extra revenue(and spin offs) could easily help cover the extra costs of a "big league" stadium and maybe the Irvings could dabble in a lil CFL with their lucrative new contract?

I agree the ship building contracts would add greatly to the economy of NS and all of Atlantic Canada for many years to come....but its a bit of a stretch to think this would prod the provincial Gov't into supporting the Stadium financially. The province has pumped 20 million into Irving's equipment upgrades already. Even when they boast a surplus they claim its not really????? The HRM 4 pad arena project that cost 50 million only received 4 million of provincial funding.
I think the Stadium project needs equal cost sharing 1/3 each, then sell naming rights and advertising to operate the stadium. The projected loss of 500k annually is a bit of a mystery on whats included and excluded for expenses and revenues......
It'll be very interesting on Monday to hear exactly what infrastructure is being announced....very interesting indeed!